Sandbar Predictions?

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Ike, I think it's important to draw a distinction between standards for businesses trying to turn a profit on a daily basis and common members of the public. Phil is just offering some useful advice about beginners buying a jet ski for practice. I don't think anyone's suggesting that we require all beginners to purchase jet skis. Businesses are on the other hand trying to use a common public resource for profit and as such are obligated to do everything in their power to ensure the safety of their customers and the general public. To me sending a student out without the ability to easily rescue them (as Phil pointed out happened last year) sounds similar to sending them out on old shabby gear because the school is trying to save some money. The only reason that probably doesn't happen more is because schools typically get such a good deal on the kite gear. I imagine it'd be possible to get a jet ski bargain with all of the schools purchasing together (maybe this could even be arranged by the Port or the appropriate governing body). That combined with their ability to write the jet skis off their taxes should make it quite a lot cheaper.

It sounds like the two issues at hand are:
1) Guidelines for schools operating in HR.
2) Recommended guidelines for not-yet proficient kiters at the spit.

Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks for the good discussion.

sherrybohn · Since 16 Jun 2006 71 Posts Â

As per kite school consession requirements all port "authorized" schools are required to have jetski /personal water craft vehicles in the water ready for their students safety/rescue.

I'm aware that some of the schools take students down past Wells Island for "deep water jet ski assisted" instruction but last year there was discussion somewhere within the State (Marine Board?) about liability and liscensing issues. Don't know where those discussions went.

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Hein, not everyone is as rich as you and can afford to built their own park from scratch. And, if you are why don't you please do so? What were these idiots thinking trying to raise some money and share the results with everyone to enjoy? FYI, everyone involved invested a lot of time, money or both to get this thing put together and that is the only reason it happened in the first place. Why do you think all the pros get to hit fun kickers and sliders and ride in the best spots? Is it because they're so CORE or because they had their shit together and were smart enough to figure out how to get some other company like Red Bull to pay for them to have a good time? Sounds like a horrible lifestyle to me. Also, suggesting the slider will wash away is like suggesting that your garage floods and all of your boards float away into the river.

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

Does anyone remember the spit ever not being a giant cluster fuck? I am sure at one point there were very few kiters out there, but I started in 03 and it seemed crowded and sketchy back then, same as it is now. That was before CGKA, before nwkite, before demo days, etc..

I agree that reckless promotion for the sake of growth is a bad idea, but you do need to plan for growth. If the sport is worth a damn it will grow.

City of Portland uses the concept called "smart growth" , idea is how can you turn growth into a positive thing and not a destructive thing?... I like to think about that when we are trying to progress the sport of kiting in the Gorge. Because I think it should progress.

Would it be worth it to go back and ride 2 line kites just so there can only be a few kiters at the sandbar? Isn't everyone stoked to see kids like the Inept Crew and Tucker and the Brady kids kick ass and rip hard? Give them some sliders and kickers to go off on and get more kids involved.

Once you stop getting kids in the sport we're just the next windsurfing, and windsurfing is so Toby.

Anyway, kind of going off on a tangent... sorry. Very Happy

Its funny how we have this same discussion at the same time every year (goddamn canuck holiday Very Happy

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J.P. · Since 10 Mar 2005 638 Posts Addicted

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue May 20, 08 10:18 am

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Well said Brian.

J.P. · Since 10 Mar 2005 638 Posts Addicted

Ike · Since 12 Mar 2008 216 Posts Central Oregon Stoked

I am totally for ski assisted lessons away from the crowds. That is why I have paid the extra money for them, it was safer and more beneficial for me and those not around me. I think requireing this of everyone is not likely.
The earlier suggestion of educating people through signage with regard to specific areas as best for beginners is more likely to succeed as I think most beginners do not want to be in the way and just need a little "friendly" direction. Antagonisim isnt usually going to be too effective. Usually they just dont know where to go or not to go. It seems when the water is a little lower there is plenty of room for your "kiddie pool" with room left over on the north for beginners to launch, loose ground and make their way back up on the sand. Although I concede that I am not there much so maybe I am all wet with this assumption.

J.P. · Since 10 Mar 2005 638 Posts Addicted

BigR · Since 05 Jul 2005 372 Posts White Salmon Obsessed

KidCorporate · Since 10 Jul 2007 563 Posts Addicted

forrest · Tue May 20, 08 11:01 am

The doors will remained closed on the CGKA meetings until we've secured ownership of all of the spots to kite in the Gorge. Then we're going to sell them back to you with a small markup! Razz

No seriously, we wouldn't turn away anyone who had something to say at one of the meetings. Organization is our primary goal right now, and incase you haven't noticed we're still trying to get communication with the members going. Also, there is a ton of stuff happening behind the scenes in parallel. You guys will be stoked with what's coming in the next season or two, I promise. We're meeting this Friday evening to put some last minute things together and then forever after, everything will be public including everything we have do so far.

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue May 20, 08 11:11 am

J.P. I totally get the idea of momentum and ground swell as you put it but as you probably know, there is a time for the public participation process and there is a time for the administrative process. I doubt that the CGKA is planning to put forth sweeping plans without rolling them out to the public first. I think the CGKA has finally figured out that in order to be productive, they have to process all the incoming information, prioritize concerns, distill them to a "digestible" format, and then roll them out to the public for comment. Without this kind of structure, meetings and the organization in general can turn into "what about this, no what about this, hey, no, I concerned about this"

In terms of differing opinions being labeled as bitchy, its a little about the message, its a little about reality, and both of those roll into whose delivering the message.

Accusing Forest and the slider project that they are selling out because they are trying to raise money or that the goal of the CGKA is to get everyone and their sisters and cousins out on the water and ruin all the launches is both untrue and a tiny bit malicious. The sport is exponentially growing by leaps and bounds and its not due to the fact that the CGKA exists or that the stevenson launch has pea gravel on it or the fact that manufacturers have demo days.

The exclusionary mindset of we were here first or the notion that if we all just look the other way people will stop flocking to the sport is not only not rooted in reality, it is, well, Lame. I'm the last person that wants to see more people at the launches but I am also the very last person that wants to see launches closed down because of the inability of people to manage the crowds and the classic playing out of the tragedy of the commons phenomenon.

Secret spot anyone?

Perhaps I am incorrect, but I think that many share the same sentiment. At some point, hearing the same tired yell of "stop promoting the sport you soulless money hungry sheep" just gets a little old.

J.P. · Since 10 Mar 2005 638 Posts Addicted

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1874 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

Not that this would be my suggestion but,
at a super-crowded beach in Chicago, they require a "permit" that you must hang from your kite to show that you know what you are doing and can kite safely around others...I think it's like a level-one cert from IKO or something. And the ones who really don't want to get it just kite somewhere else..

http://chicagokitesurfing.com/kiteboarding_messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=6285

But like Adam said, I think the sign could be more read-able and inform tourists or first-timers what to-do and what not-to-do when kiting the spit.

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue May 20, 08 11:30 am

JP, you are the mastery of quotery. I smell an official tittle in there somewhere.

I learned my lesson during the rock climbing explosion of the 90's. People all over the damned place, drilling holes and placing bolts all over gods green earth.

If people and crowds piss you off, I got news for ya, your going to be pissed of quite often cause the world ain't getting any bigger and the number of people in it is not getting any smaller.