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hoper
Since 23 Aug 2007
16 Posts
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 Sat Sep 29, 07 7:26 am Hung on a 5th line. |
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Been kiting on north R07,(9m and 12m) for the summer and am still having problems with the 5th line. On a missed trick and I let go of the bar the kite flips over in the air and flies upside down (full extendted at 30 ft off the water). Belly down like a horseshoe. I can't get the kite even to come down on the water. I am hanging off the 5th line. North says pull the 5th line in towards you and retrieve the bar. The kite should at least come back to the water.
Well a few times in this sequence, when I retrieved the bar, the kite starts to get about 5 feet off the water, and bam, the kites hot launches straight down wind and instantly flies inverted. Yuck more hassles.
You might say dump the darn things. But I am looking for input on riding with a 5th line? I like the safety and the self landing. I also like the practicality of the gust busting SLE hybrids.
Is any of this happening to other 5th line riders? |
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Sol-flyer
Since 21 Mar 2006
1280 Posts
Dude, where's my Bus?
Otto Mann
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| Sat Sep 29, 07 7:59 am |
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that happened to me one time,
the kite was way to overpowered and i thought i could just let go and unhook,...ya right. I got's yanked on me head and NOOOO way was i going to be able to pull the 5th line up to the kite. I had to let it go.
Same thing happened to me when i was NOT overpowered. as the kite flys up there upside down, i grabbed my bar and SLOWLY let the 5th line back out, steering the bar so the kite would turn and not dive directly down into the water. that seemed to work ok.....but i question the safety.
_________________
I stretch my wings and pull the strings |
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hoper
Since 23 Aug 2007
16 Posts
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| Sat Sep 29, 07 9:14 am |
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| What do you think? Lenghten the blue nose line? Or lenghten the 5th line so it is slightly slack? Shorten the distance that the bar goes up to the stopper ball? |
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Sol-flyer
Since 21 Mar 2006
1280 Posts
Dude, where's my Bus?
Otto Mann
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| Sat Sep 29, 07 9:30 am |
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| Quote: | | What do you think? Lenghten the blue nose line? Or lenghten the 5th line so it is slightly slack? Shorten the distance that the bar goes up to the stopper ball? |
the way i fly,
the 5th line should have a lil slack.(about as much as the steering lines when bar is sheeted out). and the distance to the stopper ball should be out far enough to provide full depower, yet close enough to get to with a couple of reaches.
i fly fuels so i'm not familair with the blue nose line?
_________________
I stretch my wings and pull the strings |
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hoper
Since 23 Aug 2007
16 Posts
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| Sat Sep 29, 07 10:37 am |
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| Which kind of kite is better for unhooked tricks when you end up having to let go of the bar? 5th line or briddled? |
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genek
Since 21 Jul 2006
2165 Posts
East Po
KGB
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| Sat Sep 29, 07 2:57 pm |
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| A kite that allows you to clip your leash to the depower strap or at least doesn't make the kite completely fall out of the sky. I think many 4line kites are like this (SLE/hybrid types with bridles). This way it still loses most of its power, but you can get back to the bar and relaunch easily. |
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trevorsmith
Since 25 Apr 2005
501 Posts
PDX
Addicted
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| Sat Sep 29, 07 3:53 pm |
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I rode 5th line fuels and did not like that either. so what I did is shortend the amount the bar is allowed to travel up the 5th line. you want the kite to flip over..but still have a bit of power in it so when you pull an outside line it will start to relaunch.
I figured this length with trial and error. grab the 5th line and pull it until the kite falls and flops over. note how much line you have pulled, then add a few more inches to that go from there. |
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Nak
Since 19 May 2005
4314 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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| Sat Sep 29, 07 4:21 pm |
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| trevorsmith wrote: | I rode 5th line fuels and did not like that either. so what I did is shortend the amount the bar is allowed to travel up the 5th line. you want the kite to flip over..but still have a bit of power in it so when you pull an outside line it will start to relaunch.
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The way i determine the proper amount of 5th line throw is to rig the kite up in a park on a calm day. Turn the kite upside down like the 5th line had deployed. Deploy the 5th line. there should be just a bit of slack in the 5th line while the rear lines are tight. If you pull the bar tight the 2 back lines and the 5th line should all tighten up with the kite upside down in a slightly LE down position. That way the kite will fly too the ground with the 5th line deployed.
If the 5th line is too short, it will be the only line holding the kite when the safety is deployed and the kite may continue to fly upside down. fix this one of two ways. tie a not in the fifth line leader right where you want the bar to stop. However, this will shorten the fifth line overall, so you'll have to add an extra pigtail to get the 5th line length correct again. Or, you can attach one of those little yellow stopper balls that Slingshot sells to the fifth line. They're made for flying lines, so you have to carefully drill out the center hole so it will fit over the leader line.
If the fifth line is too long, you increase the chance of the kite rolling around the 5th line. If you have a bunch of slack in the fifth line when the kite is upside down and the 5th line is fully deployed, you need to increase the amount of throw on the fifth line. To do this you have to make a new, longer, 5th line leader. You'll also need to shorten the flying 5th line to compensate. It's easiest to do this using Q-line to make a new fifth line. |
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hoper
Since 23 Aug 2007
16 Posts
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| Sun Sep 30, 07 7:13 am |
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Are you saying deploy the 5th line, but still hang onto the bar?
And how do I control the kite (get it to the water) when I have to let go of the bar? |
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Nak
Since 19 May 2005
4314 Posts
Camas
Site Lackey
CGKA Member
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| Mon Oct 01, 07 2:51 am |
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Start with the kite upside down. Pull the fifth line all the way through just like you had released the kite to the safety. Tie off the 5th line then hold the bar to check the line lengths. In your situation, with the kite hovering after releasing the bar, you'll find that all of the tension is on the 5th line. Let some 5th line back out until you have tension on the two steering lines and the fifth line. The kite should be slightly leading edge down. (The 2 steering lines should be keeping the trailing edge of the kite up at about a 20 degree angle. Or, with the kite flat upside down, there should be just a little bit of slack in the 5th line.) This is the correct amount of throw for your fifth line with this kite. Set a stopper so that the 5th line will only deploy this far.
If your fifth line is set up properly, the kite will flip upside down and fly to the water when you let go of the bar. (With no other action by you.) If it hovers, decrease the throw of your fifth line some more.
Have fun! |
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shastadogs2
Since 28 Mar 2005
336 Posts
Obsessed
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| Mon Oct 01, 07 6:02 am |
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| kites hover on their 5th line (at least my fuels do) with too much laxity in the steering lines. for me, self rescue on a fifth line always meant fixing my bar to a stump or stick or something. when the backlines are tight, the kite will lay down on the surface upside down on its 5th line. |
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trevorsmith
Since 25 Apr 2005
501 Posts
PDX
Addicted
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| Mon Oct 01, 07 1:32 pm |
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| hoper wrote: | Are you saying deploy the 5th line, but still hang onto the bar?
And how do I control the kite (get it to the water) when I have to let go of the bar? |
so to clarify..have the kite over head..somewhere safe away from people and where you won't get dragged into anything and you have the proper size kite rigged..
start hooked in and pull on your on your 5th line as fast as you can thru the bar..at some point it will pitch the leading edge down too far to fly and will start to fall out of the sky and flip over. note where the bar is on the 5th line. add a few inches. add a stopper. the kite should lay on the ground because there should still be a bit of line tention..if it flys into the air..then there is no line rear tention and you've pulled too much 5th. relaunch kite and unhook with safety attached. see if kite falls properly and without too much or too little line tention. adjust as necessary. you want minimum rear line tention as possible without complete slack. each kite size will be a bit different..so make sure you try all your kites that you use that bar on.
if you see me..I can show you if its still not clear.
remember as your testing this..that you may need to pull the chicken loop safety if shit is going bad. |
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holly
Since 09 Jul 2006
440 Posts
Hood River
Obsessed
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| Mon Oct 01, 07 7:00 pm |
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| dude just attach your leash to the chicken loop, that way when you let go of the bar it doesnt fall outta the sky.. another thing thos with the north bars is you have to ocasionally walk out the lins completly, or the 5th line get to twisted and wont depower like it should.. it get so twisted that its almost knoted.. so try that and i was kinda kidding about ckicken loop thing.. i ride north stuff so thats what i find happens. giver a try! |
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tekko
Since 20 Feb 2006
376 Posts
White Salmon
Liquid Force
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| Tue Oct 02, 07 6:53 am |
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5th line is old news... the stuff you are complaining about still happens on brand new 2008 5th line North kites. Funny thing is it's marketed as a safety feature...
There are so many good kites now that give you all of the benefits of a 5th line without any of the hassle...
One you go bridled you will never want to go back... 4 Line bridled SLE- simple, effective, reliable. You should be confident in letting go of your bar all day long as you learn new tricks and progress. If your kite/bar isn't working %100 of the time... then you are missing out.
_________________
Liquid Force Kiteboarding in the Pacific Northwest.
Demo's always available to those on this forum.. PM me to schedule. |
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holly
Since 09 Jul 2006
440 Posts
Hood River
Obsessed
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| Tue Oct 02, 07 11:58 am |
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| tekko why you got to be a hater!!!!! |
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tekko
Since 20 Feb 2006
376 Posts
White Salmon
Liquid Force
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| Tue Oct 02, 07 3:39 pm |
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Holly no hate here...
Only hate is seeing other riders bummed out on their gear and not being fully stoked on their sessions.
I didn't say anything promoting the sick new Liquid Force Kites.. but rather conciously replied neutral about styles of kites... of which there are a number of companies making really good stuff.
Bottom line is it's 2007- going into 2008. Gear should just work.. with no hassles. If a company makes a kite with a safety system, specific to that kite, and it's used as designed, then it should work when the rider lets go of the bar.... everytime.
Even the Woohoo's work and relaunch when you drop the bar. (as long as they don't invert or blowup)
I'll admit, some 5th line kites are sick and work well as a safety system... even the North's did- from the original 5th Element through 2006 Rhino/Vegas...
There is no excuse though, spending $1500+ on a new 2007/08 kite and using it as designed and having the saftey system not work or do funky things... unless you are confident you'll never drop your kite or try to progress and just happen to love the performance of your kite so much you're willing to make a tradeoff... but with so many companies making good stuff that DOES WORK AND PERMORM why would you want to make that tradeoff??
There are so many good kites out now that everyone should be able to find something they like the feel of... and the safety should work when you drop the bar. If not, the maybe it's time to consider other options...
While I wish everyone was flying the new Liquid Force HaVoc's... I am not the type to try and convince anyone who is happy on their gear and stoked on their sessions to even consider making a switch... but for those, like the original poster, who is having issues with his gear, keeping him from being stoked or progressing... that guy should at least take advantage of all of the demo opportunities available to try out what everybody else is producing.... because we don't all have the same problems....
_________________
Liquid Force Kiteboarding in the Pacific Northwest.
Demo's always available to those on this forum.. PM me to schedule. |
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holly
Since 09 Jul 2006
440 Posts
Hood River
Obsessed
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| Tue Oct 02, 07 6:22 pm |
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| i was kidding!! |
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