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Need Community's Opinion on my Obligation
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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A-Town

Since 11 Dec 2019
11 Posts

 



PostThu Jun 04, 20 3:19 pm    Need Community's Opinion on my Obligation Reply with quote

Here's the deal:
I sell a 7 yr old kite that the last time I flew the kite Aug 2019, I had no issues.
I inflated the kite for craigslist photos and had no issues, Dec 2019.
The kite was advertised as used and priced as such, $300.
Buyer uses the kite 3 times, then informs me that it is not holding air.
Leaking at valve gusset on main spar.

What is my obligation here as the seller?

I believe that a leaking valve gusset is not abnormal for a kite of this age.

The buyer states that a new bladder is $60 and wants me to pay.

I'd be willing to refund the buyer half of the cost of a new bladder ($30), because I'm a nice guy and want to avoid conflict.

What is the kite community's opinion on such a matter?

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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
527 Posts

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PostThu Jun 04, 20 4:32 pm     Reply with quote

When you buy used it is “as is”. Unless you lie to some one about the condition.
Since you told him it was 7 years old and sold it in good faith, you have no obligation at all. But it’s nice of you to offer to cover half. How about replacing just a new valve? Easy cheap fix?

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Wind Slither

Since 04 Mar 2005
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PostThu Jun 04, 20 4:50 pm     Reply with quote

Yeah, what exactly is a valve gusset though? Why is he talking about a new bladder?

Buying a 7 year old kite for $300 you might expect to have do some maintenance to it and you're being more than fair about it.

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Ho-Toe

Since 30 Apr 2014
208 Posts
pissed-off science guy like Bill Nye
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PostThu Jun 04, 20 5:33 pm    cheap repair Reply with quote

Send your PITA this link and tell him to get bent:

https://www.airtimekite.com/airtime-kite-bladders/valve-repair/valve-trap.html

Anybody wanna buy a 7m T3? Laughing

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Kmun

Since 05 Jul 2009
207 Posts

Stoked



PostThu Jun 04, 20 5:58 pm    Re: cheap repair Reply with quote

Ho-Toe wrote:
Send your PITA this link and tell him to get bent:

https://www.airtimekite.com/airtime-kite-bladders/valve-repair/valve-trap.html

Anybody wanna buy a 7m T3? Laughing


Not so fast. First hand experience guidance by Air Time. Those retro fit 9mm will NOT fit ALL kite models.

IMO a $30 funds return toward the repair a very generous offer. BTW: Once the adhesive begins to fail the clock is running on all the other valves. Yes, an entire bladder replacement is the best solution to reduce future risks.

Best of luck.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1523 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostThu Jun 04, 20 6:18 pm     Reply with quote

You're a prince for agreeing to $30.
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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4851 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped



PostThu Jun 04, 20 6:44 pm     Reply with quote

wylieflyote wrote:
You're a prince for agreeing to $30.


truth!

but we know that!

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
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PostThu Jun 04, 20 7:01 pm     Reply with quote

I think you'll feel good about throwing $30 his way, especially since you're not obligated to do so.

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Singlemalt

Since 21 Jun 2015
321 Posts
White Salmon
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PostThu Jun 04, 20 8:18 pm     Reply with quote

How many times did Mr I. CN. Kiteforcheap crash the old girl in three sessions?

Used kites are used kites. It didn’t leak when he pumped it up the first time. After that, it’s his kite to keep running.

I picked up a sweet deal on an older, but basically unused kite. Flew it a few times, and it was great. Then every valve attachment just gave up. Lesson learned.

Seven years and older, every flight might be the last.

Thirty bucks would be gracious and generous. I think you’d be going above and beyond.

Now, what do I do with my 2012 Naish Parks? Sell em? Cheap? Give em away? Chuck em?

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
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Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostFri Jun 05, 20 6:18 am     Reply with quote

Singlemalt wrote:

Used kites are used kites. It didn’t leak when he pumped it up the first time. After that, it’s his kite to keep running.


Exactly. I see it like this. When you purchase a wetsuit? When you purchase street shoes? The merchant would never give a refund after you walked through the mud... after you pee'd in the wetsuit.
Wife does a lot antiques on feeBay. You can't trust the public.

You're good.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostFri Jun 05, 20 7:04 am     Reply with quote

Singlemalt wrote:
How many times did Mr I. CN. Kiteforcheap crash the old girl in three sessions?

Used kites are used kites. It didn’t leak when he pumped it up the first time. After that, it’s his kite to keep running.

This.

Old anything, kites, cars, pressure washers, etc are a gamble. Always have been always will be. Sometimes when you buy used you pay little and get something that lasts for years. Yay, you win. Sometimes when you buy used the item fails soon after you buy it. Darn, you lose. If you don't want to gamble, buy new with a warranty.

Your responsibility as a seller is to honestly and fairly depict the item's current condition and to disclose any known flaws. If you represented the kite as holding air and it held air with no leaks when you sold it then you made an honest sale. You have no way of knowing what the future holds. On the other hand, if you had replaced valves before and did not disclose this then you bear responsibility. Once one valve fails they all will soon. Any repair to a kite is a flaw that should be disclosed.

A used car will require more maintenance than a new car. A used kite will require more maintenance than a new kite. These are simple facts of life that the buyer needs to learn. The buyer got a kite for very little money. If the kite had lasted for years with no leaks, should the buyer have contacted you and paid you more money? Of course not.

If you depicted the kite's current condition accurately and disclosed any known flaws or repairs, then you have zero responsibility to the buyer. Giving him $30 as a goodwill gesture would be a nice thing to do for yourself if it will make you feel better. Not a bad idea to defuse conflict and is probably what I would do.

That said, you're not doing the buyer any favors. He has a warped idea of what is "fair" in life. The sooner he learns how to deal with life's ups and downs on his own the better off he'll be. Suggesting that you should pay for maintenance on an item he now owns is behavior I would expect from a 10 year old child. If I were the parent of that 10 year old I would see that he apologized to you for his spoiled behavior.

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undertow

Since 15 Feb 2008
362 Posts
BeaversBurg
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PostFri Jun 05, 20 7:12 am     Reply with quote

I had a similar experience. I sold a used board to a guy, and he broke it. He emailed me that the board was broke. It was fine when I sent it. It was fine when he got it. He still was trying to get his money back. I told him he broke it so deal with it. He complained to PayPal. So I had to respond to PayPal. PayPal gave him his money back, but they believed my side of the story. I guess when choads complain enough they can get their money back when they break what they bought.

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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4851 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped



PostFri Jun 05, 20 7:51 am     Reply with quote

Nak wrote:
I would expect from a 10 year old child. If I were the parent of that 10 year old I would see that he apologized to you for his spoiled behavior.


Agree

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Chuckster

Since 07 Sep 2018
11 Posts
Tigard
 



PostFri Jun 05, 20 8:03 am     Reply with quote

I agree AS IS. No obligations after that on any used equipment. Things break down at any age but as age increases so does the propensity for failure.

being a newbe I bought an apoxy board from a guy that had water damage. On closer inspection by a good friend fround out the fin box was blown and that was the source of the water damage. I payed a healthy price for the board $400. was probably worth (free) The same good friend told me the board was toast. Well, I figured it was my fault for being so stupid. So I fixed it up my self and now its one of my go too's.

Lesson learned: But, I was the one that should have done my home work or had someone look at it with me who had more knowledge.

C

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a.benjamin76

Since 27 Jul 2017
70 Posts

 



PostFri Jun 05, 20 8:09 am    Ethical Dillema Reply with quote

This is a great and thanks for posting it on here. I've sold many used gear in the past. My thoughts on your situation are as follows:

1. $300 for a 7 year old kite seems like an expensive deal only a beginner would fall for. Maybe for that price, the expectation is that the kite is fully functional. Ultimately it's the buyers responsibility to know the market, but it's our role as experienced kiters to price items fairly based on age, condition, and our experience. There's no carfax on used kites so buyers are completely at the sellers whim regarding kite condition, especially if it's on ebay.

2. Before I list any kite, I always inflate, take plenty of pictures, and let the kite sit for an hour. If it's showing any signs of leaks after an hour, I don't list it.

3. After 3 uses, you don't know if the guy tomahawked the kite and caused a valve leak. Ask the guy. If he did and is lying, well then karmas going to have it's way with him. I usually give the buyer a 2 week, good experience grace period before I cut ties.

4. I have no idea what a valve gusset is. I googled gusset and become even more confused. If it's a leaky valve, I'd want the person to have a good experience so I'd likely send a $15 airtime replacement valve and instructions on how to do the repair.

Good on you for posting this and feeling a level of personal responsibility to do the right thing.

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
565 Posts

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PostSun Jun 07, 20 7:45 pm     Reply with quote

Seriously???

Learn to fix your kite... Or find someone who knows how to fix your kite. I do both...
I fix the easy stuff but... my kite repair guy has bailed me out of incredibly mashed equipment... Kudos and thank you if you are reading this.

When you buy a new $1700 kite you expect a warranty. When you buy a $300 kite you expect it to match the listing.

When you buy a $300 used kite you expect to be putting some elbow grease on the kite. Someone is selling it to you because they are upgrading to something newer (or brand new). Also, you can bet they are paying more than $300 for their upgraded kite... No matter what their bro deal looks like.

Once you take that kite out for a session you own it. Good, bad, or ugly.

This being said I did have a guy sell me a used board once that I didn't particularly like how it rode. He took it back no questions asked. I consider this person a good kite buddy and close friend now days.

Rant aside. I usually recommend beginners buy used equipment. They are just going to trash it anyways. Also, the learning experience for fixing your kite is a requirement when you are traveling on kite vacations. Most destination islands do not have local repair services available.

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Wind Slither

Since 04 Mar 2005
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The 503
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PostSat Jun 13, 20 8:26 am     Reply with quote

So how did this end up A-Town?

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