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Experiences of Single strut vs No Strut kites?

 
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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 6:39 am    Experiences of Single strut vs No Strut kites? Reply with quote

Looking for an 8 or 9m single, or no strut kite for 12-16 mph east wind foiling, of which Viento gets a lot of in the fall and winter from 11-1 which is often my window. I am only interested in foiling.

The trade off as I understand it--assuming steady wind which is absolutely the case of east winds at Viento, so I am not concerned about the reported poor response to gusts of no-strutters--is a single strut launches easier, but is heavier, so might/will fall out of the sky sooner, whereas a no strut will stay in the air better, but can get water on top of the canopy making relaunch a pain at times.

Since it's winter, and everything is cold I would rather not be in a position of relaunch difficulty due to kite design. So far, I tried a single strut and the relaunch was just brainless easy in very light winds. No way my three strut would have made it off of the water.

I am interested in hearing form folks who have flown both.

Maybe we can keep brands out of the discussion to avoid a brand vs brand...which will shut down the conversation, as everyone on broh-brah will say their kite is amazing. The issue at hand is one strut vs no strut for folks who have tried both

Thanks,
Eric

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
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Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 8:32 am     Reply with quote

I've been very pleased with my 8m BRM Cloud for 12-18 mph winds. I can personally attest that especially on the "D" and "E" generations of the Clouds that water relaunch is never a problem. It might be a slightly different skill set than a strutted kite. There have been occasions where myself and a friend on a 12m strutted kite with similar skill levels both crashed, and I'm up and off running much before he is.

Holey light winds at Barra de Navidad, Pacific Coast of Jalisco, Mexico. I've not swam home ever, (yet) 8m Cloud D
EDIT: Near %100 of my time is foiling

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Kip Wylie

Last edited by wylieflyote on Fri Oct 25, 19 8:55 am; edited 3 times in total

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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Camas
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 8:35 am     Reply with quote

Disclaimer: I only have one session with a no strut kite.

No strut.
Lighter and easier to pack for trips.
Has a different feel that many love.
Nimble and quick.

One strut: (Caveat; there can be a BIG difference between one strut kites.)
Easier to relaunch.
Has a feel closer to traditional kites that many love.
Boosts better.

I've had no strut riders tell me they absolutely love their no strut for foiling, but not so much on a twin tip. My one strut works great for both, but does not boost as well as the 3 strut kite I was riding before.

As far as light winds, I have a fair amount of experience riding on the ragged edge of not enough wind this last year in Kailua. With my 12m one strut, I have yet to be sitting on the beach watching while others ride. In fact, I'm often the only rider out. My one strut stays in the air in the lulls at least as well as a popular no strut kite. There is a guy at Kailua with a newer Ram air kite that is supposed to be the be-all/end-all for light wind. I've ridden by him while he was swimming in. He's a better foiler than I am too. His ram air is a 10m compared to my 12m, but I also out weigh him by 80 pounds. The graph is from last week. I rode through the lulls in the afternoon while several no struts were swimming. I'm sure exact location at the time of the lulls played a part.

Note: My 2019 12m is significantly better both in light wind and over powered conditions than the 2017 12m--same make and model--I had. When I had the 2017 12m one strut, I kept my 3 strut kites in the smaller sizes. After riding the 2019 version, I switched all my smaller kites over to the same one strut.


   Kailua.jpg 

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 8:55 am     Reply with quote

Darn it Kip, I didn't know we were doing action photos! LOL. Very Happy Anyways, here's an after action shot on the Columbia west of the Gorge. I did a lot of riding there this Summer in spots previously un-rideable on west winds... Until foils and magic kites came along!

   Columbia.jpg 

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
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Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 8:58 am     Reply with quote

Tech question... How do I remove this nagging annoyance from my screen? Smile

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 9:05 am     Reply with quote

Bengal tiger kitten Mark does not approve....
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 9:08 am     Reply with quote

wylieflyote wrote:
Tech question... How do I remove this nagging annoyance from my screen? Smile


That tiger kitten has a Mark on it's ass!

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Jonpnw

Since 22 Jul 2010
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Pacific Northwest
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PostFri Oct 25, 19 6:24 pm    Stringy & Tak Reply with quote

Shout out to Stringy & Tak !! They should have some solid insight
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stringy

Since 23 Jun 2006
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vancouver
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PostSat Oct 26, 19 9:53 am     Reply with quote

hey eric, I've been riding BRM clouds for a while now.
being one of the early adopters even before foiling, the newer clouds seemed dialed for the foil discipline.
when its a summer weekend in the gorge, go check out stevenson to see how they have impacted the area let alone the foiling scene.
I don't use them for much other type of riding, but yeah they seem to work well as you can go out on a much smaller kite and foil with and they still hardly fall from the sky.
Its a myth that strutless kites are hard to relaunch. any kite is hard to relaunch if there is no wind. the way the struts are designed on the cloud make it pretty easy to relaunch. may take some skill and/or patience but its no more challenging than a strutted kite.
I don't have much time on the one strut kites but from my experience so far on different brands, they seem slower and less responsive than the cloud kite, not to mention heavier.

taks been riding the ghost pre-production one strut model and he seems to be elevating his game with strapless riding.

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safetychek

Since 07 Nov 2006
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Hood River
 



PostSun Oct 27, 19 4:37 am    Strut vs no-strut Reply with quote

Have tried the no-strut a few times, and have been using the one-strut a lot.

A BIG difference is what happens when the wind goes so light that the kite
ends up in the water for a more than a moment.

One strut kite kite the canopy stays up, waiting for the next gust to relaunch.
This is good.

No-strut kite, the canopy can go down to the water and it can get into the dreaded
baby-pool look, where the canopy goes underneath the water. You can't pull the lines,
to pop it back up, it submerges it more.
This is not good.

I have tried the Cloud a few times. I have Naish Boxers that I have used a lot.
I recently purchased some Core XLITES and have used them a few times.

-Stuart

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
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Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostSun Oct 27, 19 5:51 am    Re: Strut vs no-strut Reply with quote

safetychek wrote:

No-strut kite, the canopy can go down to the water and it can get into the dreaded
baby-pool look, where the canopy goes underneath the water. You can't pull the lines,
to pop it back up, it submerges it more.
This is not good.

I have tried the Cloud a few times.
-Stuart


Stuart, But there are a few tricks with strutless kites that resolve this "baby-pool" and might take more the a few rides to learn. I have not swam in years. Your "baby-pool" in general will only happen on the large 10.4 and up, and then only on very light days. Patient gentle tension will empty the pool in most cases, unless everyone on any kite is being rescued.
Kip

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Pepi

Since 16 Jun 2006
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PostSun Oct 27, 19 2:38 pm     Reply with quote

Eric.
Happy to let you try out any of our Airush Ultra II or Ozone Apha Demo kites.
I have a 9m Ultra II and 10m Alpha. Both are regularly in the van with me at the shop or the beach.

Ultra is a bit more steady and smooth feeling kite, using pulleys on the bridles.
Alpha is a bit quicker in responsiveness when really powered and for playing in the swell, uses shorter fixed bridles.

Both stay up in the air when wind speeds drop to low single digits, and relaunch is very easy in light winds, either rolling them in the power zone or reverse launching via the backlines.

Pepi

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