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Short vs Long Foil Mast?

 
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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1272 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostSun Oct 21, 18 8:18 am    Short vs Long Foil Mast? Reply with quote

I currently have my 111 Ghost Whisperer mast and a 590 Moses wing. I see more and more people opting for shorter masts. This isn't just folks trying to learn without crashing. Oddly, I'm thankful at times for the longer mast in those moments when I should have breached the wing to air... but was saved.
Please list the advantages of trading to a shorter mast.

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Kip Wylie

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jiberus

Since 21 Nov 2007
17 Posts

 



PostSun Oct 21, 18 6:04 pm     Reply with quote

I am not foiling yet. However, I have heard that it is not the length of your mast that is important, but rather on how you use it.

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Bargeslayer

Since 08 Jul 2012
91 Posts

 



PostSun Oct 21, 18 6:41 pm     Reply with quote

jiberus wrote:
I am not foiling yet. However, I have heard that it is not the length of your mast that is important, but rather on how you use it.


Very true, speed, angle of attack, surface conditions can all trump mast length Laughing

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TAK

Since 04 Aug 2009
78 Posts

 



PostSun Oct 21, 18 7:03 pm    Just ride it like you stole it!!! Reply with quote

Just like my wife tells me it’s not about the size it’s all technique!!!

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juandesooka

Since 21 Jan 2014
60 Posts

 



PostSun Oct 21, 18 9:36 pm     Reply with quote

shorter mast: easier to learn, shallow water. Other than that, I can't see any advantages. Long mast keeps your wing in the water in chop and waves, and when laying out turns at speed.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1061 Posts
Hood River
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PostMon Oct 22, 18 7:45 am     Reply with quote

Kip,
I ride 100% in the gorge and I prefer big winds and big swell.
I travel long distances upwind so I can ride swell downwind.

It sounds like the only reason you ride a long mast is to avoid breaching? Surely your riding skill has progressed where breaching is not an issue anymore?

I ride the 91 and 633 wing.
I find with the 633 the vertical trim is locked in and I don't experience random rise or fall in foil height. Breaching is not issue for me. I feel much more locked in for height above the water.

With the longer mast - I would sometimes find myself riding way too high in the air - that's when people get hurt. I prefer to keep my foil about 12 inches above the water.

If your focus is going fast and jumping - I see the advantage of fast wings and long masts.... but if the focus is on cruising up and down wind and riding swell and aerial foot switches - I see the advantage of bigger, forgiving wings and shorter masts.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1272 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostMon Oct 22, 18 7:55 am     Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:
Kip,
If your focus is going fast and jumping - I see the advantage of fast wings and long masts.... but if the focus is on cruising up and down wind and riding swell and aerial footswitches - I see the advantage of bigger, forgiving wings and shorter masts.


Thanks, That's the information I was seeking. Currently on a Moses 590 with a 483 stabilizer and I can't imagine a better package. Forgiving, moderately fast, up-wind is good, super stable aerial switches. I rarely breach these days.
Kip

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Kip Wylie

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trailboss

Since 08 Aug 2006
79 Posts
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PostMon Oct 22, 18 12:45 pm    Re: Short vs Long Foil Mast? Reply with quote

wylieflyote wrote:
I currently have my 111 Ghost Whisperer mast and a 590 Moses wing. I see more and more people opting for shorter masts. This isn't just folks trying to learn without crashing. Oddly, I'm thankful at times for the longer mast in those moments when I should have breached the wing to air... but was saved.
Please list the advantages of trading to a shorter mast.


For swell riding the wing needs to be in the power of the swell (closer to the surface) on a really long mast this can mean that you need to be really high off of the water to get the wing into the power. So for surfing or riding swell kiting a somewhat shorter mast can be more ideal. It also seems like the leverage and frequency for pumping a foil works a bit better on a somewhat shorter mast.

For just straight kiting it seems like the long mast works awesome especially for laying it way over and less tracing of the surface going up wind.

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kitebot

Since 20 Feb 2007
224 Posts

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PostMon Oct 22, 18 2:10 pm     Reply with quote

I'm an intermediate flatwater rider and only use the short mast on low tides to get out the first few hundred meters at my shallow spot. Once I'm out far enough though, I always wish I was on the longer mast.

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anders

Since 01 May 2012
100 Posts

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PostMon Oct 22, 18 10:52 pm     Reply with quote

I ride a 101 GW and love it but I would like shorter mast for surfing waves. It all depends on what your style of riding is. Another benefit to a shorter mast is the reaction time from the input you give it when turning back and forth. Surf style would seem to benefit from a shorter mast because of the type of movements.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1272 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostTue Oct 23, 18 5:01 am     Reply with quote

Thanks... Now this will be on my Spring 2019 shopping list. Got the Kanaha Shapes 37 which really dialed up the instant reaction input time.... want more.

anders wrote:
I ride a 101 GW and love it but I would like shorter mast for surfing waves. It all depends on what your style of riding is. Another benefit to a shorter mast is the reaction time from the input you give it when turning back and forth. Surf style would seem to benefit from a shorter mast because of the type of movements.

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Kip Wylie

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stringy

Since 23 Jun 2006
1602 Posts
vancouver
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PostTue Oct 23, 18 6:49 am     Reply with quote

when we began foiling we all started on 30 masts which were fine in our opinion. then we all experienced the orange mast that LF came out with. we thought this was a game changer! then we realized it wouldn't fit in our cars anymore... so some of us cut them down so they would fit..
As for my preference, I use a 36" (Project Cedrus) mast for strapless riding as this makes it easier for me to maneuver and jump. it feels snappy and responsive when carving.
I also use a 40" (GW101) specifically when I wanna outjump tak. the longer mast is essential for getting those stratospheric heights compared to shorter masts.
there's a reason why tak jumps so high. he rides the 44" length (GW111).
Other factors for a shorter mast is if your riding area is shallow. A 30" masts seems to make it easier to water start. In my experience those larger wings on longer masts don't perform the same way they do on the shorter masts.
btw drexler riding a 27" mast these days for free riding and this doesn't seem to limit his riding style

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eric

Since 13 Jan 2006
1310 Posts

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PostTue Oct 23, 18 3:41 pm     Reply with quote

105cm is the absolute best!

It's the length I own

That's my story and I am sticking to it...

Eric

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