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New fins for directional surf board
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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cathy o.

Since 11 Aug 2014
51 Posts

 



PostWed Sep 05, 18 9:00 am    New fins for directional surf board Reply with quote

I want to replace the fins on my board. I think it has Future fin boxes? (see attached pic) What would be a good replacement set of fins for my NP board for the Gorge?

thank you!


   IMG_3186.jpg 

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Sella

Since 21 Apr 2007
1662 Posts
Doin' The Dalles
FLY'IN HIGH PIE GUY



PostWed Sep 05, 18 10:28 am     Reply with quote

Big Winds has a good selection of Futures. Talk to TJ and tell him what your riding preference is and he'll help guide you with options/sizing etc.

You'll be surprised how much difference a fresh set makes.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1042 Posts
Hood River
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PostWed Sep 05, 18 10:44 am     Reply with quote

Go to a HR shop and tell them what type of turns you prefer.

Fins come in small medium and large.
I weigh 185 and I use small - guessing you'll also want small.

You can choose from raked back and flexible to more upright and stiff.

More upright - tight turn radius.
Personally - I like a stiff upright fin for fast turns in river chop and swell.
Stiffer fins have less tendency to bounce out when turning at speed in chop.
IMO - best for Columbia river swell and chop.
Also good for ocean waves - it's usually choppy when it's windy.

More rake - longer turn radius.
Flexible, raked back fins for larger sweeping turns.
Good choice if you ride in smooth water and ocean waves and like your fins to slide out when you do off the lips.

I also think more upright and stiff fins give you an edge when going upwind (pun intended).

http://www.boardcave.com/the-surfers-corner/the-surfboard-fin-guide/

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sfbomber

Since 27 Jun 2012
86 Posts

 



PostWed Sep 05, 18 2:15 pm     Reply with quote

The good news is future has a wide selection of fins. You should check out the recommended fins based on weight at future, as weight as a huge effect on what size fins you will use. My favorite setup is big side fins (like a fish) with no center fin (thanks Tophat). The center fin just slows down your board and is only needed if you are riding vert (medium to big waves). At 200#, I believe AM1s work well for me.

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Nevo

Since 01 Aug 2014
89 Posts

 



PostThu Sep 06, 18 1:19 pm     Reply with quote

The more you can try the better. It's dramatic how different things can feel by changing the fins!

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shred_da_gorge

Since 12 Nov 2008
765 Posts

Opinionated



PostSun Sep 09, 18 5:23 pm     Reply with quote

I finally caved to the peer pressure to replace my stock plastic Angry Swallow fins with the FCS "Performer" series, and it was a world of difference. The advice I was given is a good polyester fin should suffice, as the carbon fins are not only expensive but don't give. I'm intermediate so maybe an expert would disagree, but I've swapped the fins back and forth to convince myself I wasn't imagining things.

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Kmun

Since 05 Jul 2009
167 Posts

Stoked



PostMon Sep 10, 18 10:21 am    Resin vs Physical Properties Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm intermediate so maybe an expert would disagree, but I've swapped the fins back and forth to convince myself I wasn't imagining things.

Your own test results are accurate.

shred_da_gorge wrote:
The advice I was given is a good polyester fin should suffice, as the carbon fins are not only expensive but don't give.


Re: The Advise Terminology in question (polyester & "give").
Polyester is just one simple (very inexpensive, light weight) resin of many other possible choices. This resin has a minor effect on a composite structure's performance. Most important to fin performance are the various internal elements (co-molded fibers, fiber orientation, weaves, foam, hexagon sheet, wood) and of course, external dimensions.

Those polyester, chopped fiber reinforced stock inexpensive fins are very light in weight so manufacturing shipping cost savings (by the hundreds in productions quantities) is HUGE. Yes "Polyester resin" fins will not be as stiff as similar layups as G10 (epoxy) or the wide gambit of carbon, other weaves, hexcore inserted materials etc. Fin gross weight of stiff, heavier, moderate cost solid G10 material is insignificant to a kite boards' weight.

Flexi is bet saved for yoga:
As for fin "give". The cheep flexi fins of concern have little place in The Gorge unless used in the trailing fin position by the rare and very skilled rider. Max stiffness (for The Gorge) is most important and is easily tested by hand. Grab the tip of the fin and twist it or bend it off axis. For the broad population in The Gorge, "drive" is most benificial and fin flex & twist is not an positive attribute unless one is free styling or exhausted good technique. However, applied to a coastal wave under a skilled surfer, fin twist or deformation delivers noticeable ride qualities...and not all are good qualities all the time. Too much fin will feel like very sharp ski edges running too fast into a turn and the grip (lack of transverse slide) will overload the riders leg fitness (thigh burn). Great fin and board edge should allow a powerful check and jump turn. If one is "over finned", I recommend sizing down in total surface area with trailing fins as apposed to blending backwards towards flexi constructions. Yes, we are deep in the weeds.

Important Reading: Learn all about fin & board "drive". Caution, most discussion (YouTube videos, Swaylocks etc. are relating to paddle-in surfing and not the high loads of kite surfing or low potential energies of Gorge swell riding.

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
340 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostTue Sep 11, 18 6:23 am    Re: Resin vs Physical Properties Reply with quote

[quote="Kmun"]
Quote:
I'm intermediate so maybe an expert would disagree, but
Important Reading: Learn all about fin & board "drive". Caution, most discussion (YouTube videos, Swaylocks etc. are relating to paddle-in surfing and not the high loads of kite surfing or low potential energies of Gorge swell riding.



BAM!!

I think Kmun knows infinitely more about fin performance than anyone. Love to see someone disagree with his schpeel on this.

How about the difference between Tri-fin vs Quad? 5 fins?

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Pete

Since 29 Oct 2007
675 Posts

Addicted



PostTue Sep 11, 18 7:03 am    Weight and style Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:
Go to a HR shop and tell them what type of turns you prefer.

Fins come in small medium and large.
I weigh 185 and I use small - guessing you'll also want small.



Interesting comment. I also weigh 185, and I prefer the largest fins I can find. On Future Fins guide, they also define large fins as fins for guys 185+.

If you are 185 and prefer small fins, then you likely want your board to feel really loose and skatey, rather than firm and solid.

I guess fins really come down to personal preference, just like everything else we use, kites, bars, boards, harnesses, line lengths, etc. What is good for the goose may not be good for the gander. It all depends on your riding style, but weight also has quite a bit to do with it.

I love the Pancho Sullivan Future Fins. They are my go to fins.

YMMV

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1042 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostTue Sep 11, 18 7:41 am    Re: Weight and style Reply with quote

Pete wrote:
ldhr wrote:
Go to a HR shop and tell them what type of turns you prefer.

Fins come in small medium and large.
I weigh 185 and I use small - guessing you'll also want small.



Interesting comment. I also weigh 185, and I prefer the largest fins I can find. On Future Fins guide, they also define large fins as fins for guys 185+.



Pete - have you tried smaller fins?
The size guide is for paddle surfing - you can throw that out the window if you're under the power of a kite.
Not only do I not prefer skatey fins - I consistently point higher and frustrate my friends who follow me from the ES to the Hatchery.
Stiffness matters, size doesn't. Wink

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Pete

Since 29 Oct 2007
675 Posts

Addicted



PostTue Sep 11, 18 7:52 am    Re: Weight and style Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:
Pete wrote:
ldhr wrote:
Go to a HR shop and tell them what type of turns you prefer.

Fins come in small medium and large.
I weigh 185 and I use small - guessing you'll also want small.



Interesting comment. I also weigh 185, and I prefer the largest fins I can find. On Future Fins guide, they also define large fins as fins for guys 185+.



Pete - have you tried smaller fins?
The size guide is for paddle surfing - you can throw that out the window if you're under the power of a kite.
Not only do I not prefer skatey fins - I consistently point higher and frustrate my friends who follow me from the ES to the Hatchery.
Stiffness matters, size doesn't. Wink


Interesting perspective. Not trying to start a battle, or saying one is right or wrong.

I have tried smaller fins, and I hate them. I believe stiffness AND size does matter.

I am also able to point upwind quite a bit better than my friends with my larger, stiffer fins.

However, all of my kiting is done in the waves and the ocean, no Gorge kiting for me.

Hmmm....

BTW, what is your fin of choice?

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Nevo

Since 01 Aug 2014
89 Posts

 



PostTue Sep 11, 18 11:15 am    a few more details... Reply with quote

I'll add a little more of my experience since there seems to be such a wide variety of positions here.

I learned to ride on the angry swallow with the crap fins that are included. Switching to a stiff medium/large fin unlocked that board in a way that can't be explained! I would never ride those stock fins again, total garbage on that board.

Now I ride a firewire evo 5'1" with the Medium Julian Wilson 100% fiberglass fins. I love it and rarely find myself blowing the fins out unless I really want to. I even bought a second pair of fins since they were 1/2 off last week as a backup set.

I also tried the felipe toledo pro fins. The difference? The Felipe fin was super fast and crushed its way upwind. The Julian fins are a little more responsive and let the board be a little more playful for tricks at the sacrifice of upwind performance.

Now I ride the Julian fins in waves up to 6-7' and in all river conditions. No complaints.

I also tried them as a 2 fin setup last week since someone else had mentioned only needing 2 fins unless you're in big waves. Personally, I absolutely hated it. Lost way too much power in the turns and my ability to pop and boost was practically gone.

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Pete

Since 29 Oct 2007
675 Posts

Addicted



PostTue Sep 11, 18 11:57 am    Re: a few more details... Reply with quote

Nevo wrote:
I'll add a little more of my experience since there seems to be such a wide variety of positions here.

I learned to ride on the angry swallow with the crap fins that are included. Switching to a stiff medium/large fin unlocked that board in a way that can't be explained! I would never ride those stock fins again, total garbage on that board.

Now I ride a firewire evo 5'1" with the Medium Julian Wilson 100% fiberglass fins. I love it and rarely find myself blowing the fins out unless I really want to. I even bought a second pair of fins since they were 1/2 off last week as a backup set.

I also tried the felipe toledo pro fins. The difference? The Felipe fin was super fast and crushed its way upwind. The Julian fins are a little more responsive and let the board be a little more playful for tricks at the sacrifice of upwind performance.

Now I ride the Julian fins in waves up to 6-7' and in all river conditions. No complaints.

I also tried them as a 2 fin setup last week since someone else had mentioned only needing 2 fins unless you're in big waves. Personally, I absolutely hated it. Lost way too much power in the turns and my ability to pop and boost was practically gone.


Yeah, I lost a rear fin when kiting once, and hated it as well. Way too loose for me. If Tophat likes it, more power to him, but I ain't Tophat. Shocked

I looked at the Julian fins yesterday when I was trying to fine more Pancho fins. Looked OK, but I think I'm gonna stick with what I like for now.

I also liked the look and size of the large John John fins. If they stop making the Pancho fins, I think the large John John fins could substitute.

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cathy o.

Since 11 Aug 2014
51 Posts

 



PostTue Sep 11, 18 1:52 pm    Re: a few more details... Reply with quote

Well, I FINALLY rode a new NP thruster and the difference between that and the used/as is (1999) NP I've been riding was fantastic. I've really been over compensating with my current setup, which can feel schloggy and slowish while bottom turning/jibing, with really good balance and a lot of extra kite work.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice and knowledge! I'm going to order a 5-fin FCS ​II ​box setup so I can experiment with a quad or thruster configuration. And ask for stiffer, medium sized fiberglass fins.

Found this old school fin site. Kinda neat!
http://www.thefinbox.com/

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
340 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostWed Sep 12, 18 6:44 am     Reply with quote

Something I think everyone is missing that I just remmembered from my own experimentation:

A high degree of fin cant is great for prone surfing.

A high degree of fin cant is terrible for kitesurfing.

So when you change size of fins, also note the fin cant change.


For me, 2.5° was the most I was happy with. Some older slingshot fins (Doyle era) were set to almost 9° cant. And at any size, they felt sluggish with a kite at this high angle.

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1surfer

Since 20 Apr 2010
325 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
Obsessed



PostWed Sep 12, 18 10:34 am    Feel Reply with quote

Its all about how they feel. Looks could fool you.
Here is one example.
I got a new Tyrant board from Slingy a few years back. It came with 2 sets of fins. One larger cheap molded plastic set and one set of G 10 that are stiffer and slightly smaller, but look very nice.

I dont like the way that the smaller G 10's feel.

For some reason I like the way that board feels with the large cheap plastic fins. They dont look like I should like them but I do.

Discovering that was very much a surprise to me.

I have tried other fins in
that board but it just feels right with the larger plastic cheap-o fins.

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Kmun

Since 05 Jul 2009
167 Posts

Stoked



PostThu Sep 13, 18 9:39 am    Re: Feel Reply with quote

1surfer wrote:

I got a new Tyrant board from Slingy a few years back. It came with 2 sets of fins. One larger cheap molded plastic set and one set of G 10 that are stiffer and slightly smaller, but look very nice.

I dont like the way that the smaller G 10's feel.

For some reason I like the way that board feels with the large cheap plastic fins. They dont look like I should like them but I do.

I have tried other fins in that board but it just feels right with the larger plastic cheap-o fins.


1. What conditions are you riding? (River Swell, Wave size; big, small, beach break, point, reef break, side shore rip currents)?

Quote:

I have tried other fins in that board but it just feels right with the larger plastic cheap-o fins.


2. Can you be specific in what differences (output) you did or did not "feel'?
(up wind ability, water surface feedback to rider, smooth vs nervous/precise/twitchy, high speed vs tight turns & slow board speed)

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