Lines adjustment & Kite Size

Thor248 · Since 04 Feb 2016 11 Posts

Thought I'd see if anyone has insight on this... I was flying an 8m today and didn't feel like it was quite right. Came in and switched to a 6m and the kite was back stalling right out of the gate. I adjusted the outside lines, put the kite back up and everything was spot on.
Being that moving down a size, the line adjustment issues were more evident, should you be making small line adjustments for every kite size? Anyone have prefered methods? I know Greg with BRM has knot adjustments for kite sizes and it kind of makes sense, I think. In my opinion adjusting your lines for wind speed messes with the performance of your kite (switch your kite out), so I'm not talking about adjusting for wind speed. I ride neos with 22m lines, if that matters.

Surprised

Matt V · Fri May 18, 18 5:48 am

The year makes a difference as slight tweaks in shape can throw off the bridal they kept from the year before. And with most prototype kites tested in idyllic locations, rigging changes are not always caught - or accounted for "if" caught.

Then you could also be facing a "scaling" issue. Most kites are designed for an ideal size, then scaled up or down. Sometimes a bridal configuration will be kept across 2-3 kitesizes. This similar (rarely the same except for the steering attachments) bridal config may not be perfectly tuned for the scaling.

Then you have the precision of build of a kite. Maybe your problem kite was a "Friday" kite. They are all hand sewn, and visual QC out weights measurement QC. So if the seamstress gets a piece of dirt in their eye and sews a computer cut panel off, they just "trim" a little instead of going back and ripping a seam. If they did go back, you would have a kite with some "pre-use pinholes" in it.

Just make it a rule to always test fly on a more depowered setting, then see what you can do with that, or land the kite and see if you can tune it more to your liking.

ldhr · Since 21 Jul 2009 1487 Posts Hood River XTreme Poster

I ride Neos with 22m lines.
Your description is vague and hard to interpret.
"8 didn't feel right". You mean you were over-powered?
"6 was back stalling - so I adjusted my back lines".
What type of adjustment did you make? There is no adjustment for the back lines on a NEO or North bar - so I'm guessing your adjustment was to the bar's power/depower?
Either that or you switched to a different bridal setting?

I was riding my 6m Neo yesterday. When I launched at the ES grass - the kite wanted to back stall and fall out of the sky. The wind was out of the south and very flukey, especially with the back eddy current.
Once I got out 300 meters - it was flying normal.

Lastly, I use the North click bar. It has a very wide range of power/depower settings. The Neos do not like to be flown in full power or depower setting. I find they fly best when the depower is between 20% and 80% power. Either full power or full depower will make the kite fly weird.

One more thing - for the front lines there are 2 knots on the bridal for attachment.
One is for 5 line setup and the other is for 4 line setup.
I ride 4 line setup and attach to the second or inner knot as specified by North.

kwalshpc · Since 24 Oct 2014 143 Posts Stoked

First: makes sure your lines are all the same length when the depower strap is in the full power position. There is alot more pull on the middle lines and they will tend to stretch, you can compensate for that by having more length in the outside line attachments on the kite or by using some depower.

On the back stalling - if the kite is back stalling when you sheet in all the way - there is depower the kite a bit. In lighter winds, kites will back stall more than in heavy winds - you just need to see what is right for you. Play with the depower and the outside line adjustments. I personally like to have as much power in the kite as I can without a constant back stall issue - it it starts to back stall I sheet out.

Thor248 · Since 04 Feb 2016 11 Posts

My center lines were a little long and on the north bar there are back line adjustments. I moved the outside lines out a knot on the bar and took care of the line length issues. It is my opinion that kites are designed to fly with zero center line depower, as long as your lines are all the same length. It doesn't make sense to fly a kite that you need to sheet out (pull your centerlines in to a great degree). I would rather ride a proper size kite for the wind speed than fly a kite with the centerlines pulled in to depower (sheet out) in order to adjust for being overpowered. The kite will loose all of its performance. Ultimately the smaller kite you are on, the larger throw you'll have on the bar. So that may explain the backstalling once I jumped on the 6m and the line length issues became more evident.

I think Matt understood what I was originally getting at. Interesting stuff, it's up to the rider for those final adjustments. Will definitely spend the extra minute on the beach to tune. Maybe time to replace these lines as well...

ldhr · Since 21 Jul 2009 1487 Posts Hood River XTreme Poster

Regarding the rear line adjustments....
I set them when the bar was new and completely forgot they were there. Smile

I have long arms - so I set the rear lines to accommodate my reach (i.e. I shorten them).

Regarding the wish to always ride the proper size kite.....
that's always the goal.... until you're 3 miles upwind from your launch riding great swell and the wind kicks up 5 knots.....

Matt - once upon a time I worked in a sail loft for windsurf sails. I sewed the sails together. Before they got to my station the panels were taped together using 1/4 inch double sided tape.
I'm guessing the same is true for kites. I think it would be impossible for the seamstress to sew the panels together out of spec..... but I kinda sorta get your point.

Matt V · Fri May 18, 18 10:45 am

Thor248 · Since 04 Feb 2016 11 Posts

True, it pains me to see guys struggling to hold down a big kite all day long and citing the kites 'wind-range'. I do have fond memories of my one kite quiver days....