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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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 Wed Jun 04, 08 10:09 am |
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You can recycle batteries, you can create electricity, you can't however re-create hundreds of billions of gallons of crude oil. (Well maybe if they sort that whole algae thing out.)
Nickel metal hydride batteries are the past, everything will be going to lithium ion batteries (the same that are powering your laptop, IPOD, and cell phone) which is more efficient and has less enviornmental impact. The Aperta, Tesla, and Volt are using these newer batteries, and Toyota is making investments to switch soon.
I think hybrids that focus too much on the gas aspect of the car (like the Prius) are not really the answer, they cost too much more and have too much complexity for relatively low boost in MPG. It will be more cars that are almost fully electric and only have a gas generator as a last ditch effort. These cars are entering the market, they are just a little costly and impactical still (for me at least.)
A desktop PC was costly and impratical at one point, so were cell phones, now they are both cheap and everywhere. I'm not sure how many iterations of improvements there are between a 100k Tesla Roadster, and a 30k 4door AWD electric vehicle, but I can't see it being that far off though where those hurtles are overcome. The jump to me doesn't seem as big as ubiqutous cell phones or 45nm microprocessors.
Its just been too easy to use cheap oil as a crutch, that's changing so we'll adapt. (I hope.)
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 10:11 am |
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Your the one that posted the hummer- prius B.S. Sorry if I got all inflamed, that paper is such bullshit and it gets quoted all the time like people who live in the stone age..like my dad.
Good times. What we really need is some wind, like now.
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2027 Posts
Windward
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 10:45 am |
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All you need is to believe.
as country
I think,
letting the railroads fall into the past is such a waste (always meant to be subsidized)
so much cheaper per pound
with over 20 milion trucks mangling the highways (yes and paying big tax for it)
rail is almost 10 times cheaper
but oh so fuked-up.
be green green (less consumption)
not red green.( P.C.)
if it costs more, its harder on the planet .
buy your vegetables from your neighbor (save a trucker mile)
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Kataku2k3
Since 14 Aug 2005
3754 Posts
PDX-LA
Videographer
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 10:49 am |
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| Let's go kite...
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genek
Since 21 Jul 2006
2165 Posts
East Po
KGB
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 11:00 am |
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Is Phil gonna have to start blocking environmental threads too? 
Soon we'll only be allowed to talk about wind conditions and forecasts 'cause we'll be too grumpy to talk about anything else. Just need summer to get here soon.
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Diggy
Since 25 Nov 2006
342 Posts
Gorge to Coast
Obsessed
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 12:00 pm |
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Prius does more than a damage and cost more to own than a Hummer. That article is comical, I can't believe anyone would even believe that BS! Obviously the Prius is not the final solution, but at least it is a step in the right direction.
And the batteries are warranteed for 100,000 miles. I seriously doubt the battery will just be thrown out, materials will be recovered and recycled.
Why spread mis-information like that? How does that benefit anyone? When wild claims are made perhaps we should require substantiating evidence.
Word I hear is that they are closing down the Hummer factory, no demand for them evidently. Who ever would have thought that was coming with such a low relative cost of ownership?
Oh yeah, the Author himself seems to be backstepping a bit.
| Quote: |
March 28, 2007
Prius Still Not Sitting Pretty
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer
There has been quite a bit of debate regarding an opinion piece of mine entitled, “Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage.” ... I have seen my name splashed across hundreds of forums, read on live radio and even discussed within earshot of myself.
Along those lines, in the interest of fair and balanced journalism, it should be noted that the CNW Marketing research “Dust to Dust,” which I cited in my article, is dubious at best. Much of the debate has centered on the lifetime mileage of the Prius versus the Hummer. The average expected lifespan for a Prius, according to the report, was 100,000 miles when, in reality, the Prius is offered in several states with a warranty up to 150,000 miles alone.
There was also a great deal of debate regarding just which Hummer was used in the CNW report. It was the original Hummer, not the H2 or H3, which may clear up the 300,000 mile lifespan expected from a Hummer. However, there are enough holes as large as this throughout the CNW report to question its objectivity.
...
Debate, discussion and research are the key to preventing this, and, as a journalism student, I know that I have a long way to go before considering myself an objective, balanced and eloquent journalist. That is why I am attending college, and why I have never projected myself as anything but a student. But I also feel as though I have provoked a lot of thinking outside the traditional schools of thought, and that is what I ultimately aim for.
So these are my beliefs. I wrote them down for a college newspaper and submitted them to my editor for publication. Somewhere along the line, someone picked up what I wrote and handed it to Rush Limbaugh who broadcasted [sic] it across the country. I am not an environmental nut job, nor am I a corporate-sponsored puppet. I am just a college student, trying to make a name for myself – not as a biased, irresponsible and dishonest reporter, but as a fair and balanced journalist who is trying to provoke thought and debate. I still have a great deal to learn in school, but they say experience is the best teacher, and after these two weeks, I have subscribed to that belief as well.
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Perhaps Chris should learn something about scientific methods along with his journalism pursuits.
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mschulz
Since 29 May 2007
530 Posts
Reno, NV
Addicted
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 1:33 pm |
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It is funny to me that no one (that i can recall from the 4 pages) has really made the suggestion we should drive less if we want to save the environment and gas expenditures. I think that is the easiest and cheapest step. But rather we all, me included, have looked at ways to do it cheaper that in actuality cost a little more somewhere else, environmental or financial.
I love this topic.
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Spike
Since 13 May 2007
1414 Posts
Alameda
Spelling Expert
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 3:56 pm |
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| carpooling doubles or even triples gas mileage/person!
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BigR
Since 05 Jul 2005
372 Posts
White Salmon
Obsessed
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 4:56 pm |
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hummers were a one year wonder/ bubble
don't get caught up in the hype!
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 5:32 pm |
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What! every one know US made cars, especially SUVs, always go 300 thousand and hondas and toyotas are junk after 100 thousand........ ummm wrooong... 
hummers are the answer......
at least the kind that don't need gas to operate.. 
hypermile your fellow travelers... have good insurance.
jump in with your local kiteboard buddy and don't chip in on gas ... thats how you stay in ignorant bliss of global oil prices.........
use less oil so there is more for the rest of the planet... so prices will not go down much ... 
screw socialized medicine I want socialized oil distribution... the govenment can fix it right ........ they fixed our social security
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Reaper356
Since 10 Dec 2006
781 Posts
Salem / LC Oregon
Opinionated
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 5:36 pm |
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Nigerian stimulus kickback check should cover gas and have some leftover for this conversion! 
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registered
Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts
tsunami
Sandbagger
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| Wed Jun 04, 08 6:02 pm |
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here your hybrid.... a motorcycle made car = x-bow... ktm ...
no windshield comes with custom helmets.
not as green as a hummer but almost. damn suburban/ hummer facade.
soo the original hydrogen deal is physically improbable?
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colby
Since 23 Apr 2005
613 Posts
Celebrity
Photographer
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colby
Since 23 Apr 2005
613 Posts
Celebrity
Photographer
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| Thu Jun 05, 08 9:00 am |
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most importantly...
What is the seating and cargo space?
The Aptera has "two plus one" seating allowing plenty of room for driver and passenger while an infant seat (newborn to age three) can be located in the middle behind the front seating. There is enough storage space to fit 15 bags of groceries, two full-size golf club bags or even a couple of seven foot surf boards.
from http://www.aptera.com/ask.php
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Gman
Since 11 Feb 2006
4911 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped
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strachman
Since 09 Aug 2007
170 Posts
Stoked
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| Thu Jun 05, 08 11:23 am |
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All right, this is a great alternative, converting gas/diesel engines into (primarily)veggie oil consuming engines. Although it takes a great commitment, as would any gas eliminating measure would. These guys are local and cool as shit. I am almost certain they are doing coversions...daily.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=64276520
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brass
Since 15 Jul 2006
152 Posts
Stoked
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| Thu Jun 05, 08 2:43 pm |
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Grease cars are a great way to go but you have to remember that 1) conversion requires a diesel engine and 2) they are still internal combustion engines whose by-products (while maybe less) are no different than gas/diesel engines. Don't get me wrong though, these are a step in the right direction. You could argue that the amount of fuel burned to produce veg oil is far less than that used to produce products refined from crude oil.
Just further pointing out what others already have- that there is no one solution and that reducing the need (carpooling) is going to go a long way.
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