Broughton Landing - a chance to address kiting needs

tonyb · Last edited by tonyb on Sat Feb 23, 08 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total

This topic shouldn't stir up any emotions; right??? Confused

Edit on 2/23 as Carol says I wasn't clear enough on some things and didn't give CGKA enough credit for the work they've been doing. Embarassed

The point of this long winded post is two fold:

1. As an individual you have the opportunity to influence a decision (for or against - your choice!) about development in the Gorge.
2. As a group we have the chance to have CGKA represent us and advocate for water access at this project. Or have the CGKA tell the Gorge Commission we don't want development.

Getting more river access requires some level of effort from YOU. The CGKA is making that effort in various ways. Jim Grady and Mark Barnes attended a Port meeting in Stevenson a couple of weeks ago and there are new positions and plans to lead projects at the various launch sites in the Gorge. On the BL issue Jim and I are trying to set up a meeting with Mike Usen, a Senior Planner for the project (lots of e-mails last week!) but so far we haven't settled on a date. BUT - the community needs to get more involved with the CGKA to let them know how you feel. I know what I'd like to see and I know the opinions of a few others but does the CGKA know what the majority wants? Maybe more people are against this project than for it. Maybe this is the issue that finally pushes enough buttons to generate some response. Maybe not - and we'll just go kiting where we always have. Smile

Last week I went to Hood River for the Gorge Commission hearing on the Broughton Landing project ( http://www.broughtonlanding.com ) and signed up for my 3 minutes of public testimony. The only other kiters that I saw there were Tonia and Garrett who were able to stay through the morning session but did not have time to testify or stay to hear me testify.

Short version of my testimony:
- As a Port of Skamania Commissioner I told them I and the Port support the project.
- As a resident of Skamania County I told them I support the project with certain reservations, primarily to eliminate any permanent residential units and to have it as overnight / short term facilities only. Also requested addition of bike trails and enhancement of the open space.
- As a kiter I pointed out that they only had one reference to kiting in all of their literature, one reference on their website, and that all of the focus seemed to be on windsurfing and the needs of that community. I asked that they work with the CGKA to obtain input from the kiting community and that any new launch sites or river access that is developed be inclusive of kiters, kayakers, boaters, and not limited to only windsurfing.

The day after the hearing I received an e-mail from the project team thanking me for my testimony and requesting further discussion to find out what the kiting community needs are. I forwarded this contact info on to the CGKA and we started trying to plan a meeting. A few days later I received a phone call from Mike Usen, a Senior Planner for the project. Here's the gist of what Mike and I discussed:

- The period for public comment has been extended to March 11th due to the fact that so many people signed up to testify last week.
- As an individual you can voice your support (or opposition) or submit any of your concerns or ideas here: http://www.gorgecommission.org/contact_commissioner.cfm or at http://www.broughtonlanding.com/supportus/ either place gets your comments into the public record. Contrary to how the link reads you can post for or against the project at either link and it all makes it into the record.
- The Broughton Landing Project is aware of the explosive growth in kiteboarding, stagnation/decline of windsurfing and understands that we would like equal access to the river.
- In regards to kite specific needs they would prefer to work with an organization like CGKA rather than trying to go through 20 or 40 different individuals.
- We have a chance to influence kiting access at the site and the surrounding parks/launches they will be required to improve if the plan amendment is approved by the Gorge Commission.

So, we have a small window of opportunity to do something (or do nothing) as the CGKA elections are on March 8th and public comment is open until March 11th. If the new CGKA board of directors can meet immediately after the election and send a statement supporting (or not) the project and provide a list of launch site requirements/requests and a contact person for the project to work with we can make a difference that could provide us some much needed access to the river and take a load off of Hood River, Lyle, and Stevenson. The current CGKA leadership is working on this issue and they will make contact with the developers and commission but participation from the membership is small. I see the election point as a chance to say to the developers, "we just had an election and our members came out to overwhelmingly support (or not) this project and this is what they want to see..." Nothing like hot off the press enthusiasm. (this is another point where Carol said I didn't say it right Embarassed

) In the first draft last night (which I had to do before going to the airport so it got rushed), I did not mean to imply to anyone that the CGKA, or Jim, or Corey, or any of the current members aren't on top of things - just that the developers have not heard the unified voice of the kiting community at this time.

To sum up a long post:
- If you want to influence the decision of the Gorge Commission, either for or against the project - post your comments via one of the links above.
- If you want the project to provide access for kiters post your comments via one of the links above. State your support (or not ) for the CGKA to represent you in this area.
- If you want the CGKA to represent you and advocate for kiting access at the project - contact them or start posting here. They will hear what you have to say and respond.
- Basically - get off your ass and do something! Very Happy

To the CGKA (current BOD or future BOD): If you need help with this issue I will volunteer to be the Broughton Landing Coordinator. (since I'm knee deep in the muck by now!)

Tony

TWIN-FIN · Since 24 May 2006 805 Posts Portland, OR Hot Monkey

Tony,
You are "The Man"!!!!!
Thanks also go out to Tonia and Garrett for attending the Gorge Commission hearing.

I agree!, we the kiteboarding community need to "get off our ass" and let the Broughton Landing Group know what our needs are. I will be emailing http://www.gorgecommission.org/contact_commissioner.cfm and http://www.broughtonlanding.com/supportus/ to let these folks know how much the Hatchery Launch means to me and the history of the gorge. After all the Hatchery is the Hookipa of the Gorge.

Its a know brainer that CGKA get envolved providing the kite community needs to the Broughton Landing Development Project.
Tony with your background and involvement in the Kiteboarding community, I think you are the perfect person to make it happen.
Thanks Tony for stepping up as the Broughton Landing Coordinator.
If this whole thing pulls through, we will have to name the launch after you Laughing

shredjim · Since 07 Jun 2006 188 Posts Stoked

Tony - thank you for hopefully lighting a fire to spark people into deciding how they feel about the Broughton Lumber Project - ie, do you support or do you NOT support it? With the power of the family behind it and the political situation before us, I personally believe it is more a question of when, not if this development will go through to at least some capacity, but I see the when taking time. Kiters - we as CGKA need to know if the majority of our membership either supports this cause or would like to see CGKA speak against it. I have proposed that the new CGKA BOD hold an emergency meeting on Sunday March 9th to decide upon our position. Then appoint a Project Manager, and have that person carry our position forward immediately thereafter with additional BOD support. At the election on your closed ballet or in your email vote (details to come), you will need to fill in a field on your form that asks your position, then we will have the membership data necessary to craft CGKA's message. As long as there is no conflict of interest with the Port of Skamania, since he has volunteered (we like volunteers!) I will be recommending Tony to lead CGKA's charge on the BL project!

schnauzer dawg · Fri Feb 22, 08 10:46 pm **Thanks Tony!**

Its nice to know whats going on backgound.
Thanks Tony Cool

Woof, Woof

tonyb · Sat Feb 23, 08 7:31 am

Good morning everyone! I made an edit to my first post so make sure you get a cup of coffee and try to re-read it! Basically I didn't give enough credit to the current CGKA leadership for their involvement and wasn't clear on what you can do to help the CGKA voice your opinion. Apologies to the CGKA - I didn't have a lot of time last night and something that long winded needs a few reviews to get it right.

Sincerely,

Tony

carolb · Sat Feb 23, 08 8:29 am **Designing a great launch**

Rather than on focusing on the issue of should we or not, I came up with some topics for discussion in designing a new launch. Lets put some feedback to these topics and see what we can make. This is a huge wish list at this point so lets brainstorm.

Questions for them - Physical limitations – How much physical area can we request?

Goals of the design of kite launch

1). Who will be using it?
Kiting ability: Intermediate plus
Kite schools – no

2). Capacity – (Capable of handling x # of kiters): 30
Stevenson currently can handle about 30 kiters without feeling crowded

3). Launch Design:
How many people can launch or land at a time? 5-10
Stevenson is 1.
Sand preferred over rocks on the beach
High wind access with point, no coves or swirley winds
Floating docks?

4). Rigging Area Design:
Grass to keep the kites clean
2-5 kite lines wide. I’m considering Stevenson to be 1 kite wide.
Room to stack kites

5). Parking –
20 spaces close with a nearby over flow lot.

6). After kiting facilities.
Power for music, blenders, and events
Picnic table, BBQ Grill, and spectator area away from launch
Heated with water flushable bathrooms and changing pavilion

7). Storage Lockers for kites, boards, gear, etc. Maybe a Tuff Shed with nightly and season rentable lockers.

Cool

. Event facilities
Area to put up judges booth, power, etc.
After kiting party area?

bookmyer · Since 23 Feb 2008 6 Posts New Member

windsurfed @ the hatch for 10 years + and kited there for 10, need to leave as is, a "double black diamond" riding spot, no need to gentrify for all, build the resort but leave the hatch alone, I have intimated accordingly to Gorge comm. and development proponents these sentiments

Slipin Lizard · Since 23 Sep 2005 88 Posts Hood River, Oregon Â

I totally agree. I also think that its good in this kind of discussion to focus on reality and positive thinking. It's great that Tony is putting forth a good word for the kiting community but statements like:
"The Broughton Landing Project is aware of the explosive growth in kiteboarding, stagnation/decline of windsurfing and understands that we would like equal access to the river." are only going to alienate windsurfers, fuel the debate between kiting and windsurfing, make kiting appear weak, and are simply not true in the first place.
First off, its just silly to try and pretend that windsurfing is on the decline, especially at the Hatch. I'm sorry, but windsurfing's decline ended in 1999 and the sport has being growning steadily ever since, in all age groups. In the US alone there's an estimated 1.2 million active windsurfers, and that number is growing, not shrinking. But forget that. Just go to the Hatch on a July windy day, and try and kid yourself that windsurfing is "cancelled".
Remember that currently, there is no restriction against kiting at the Hatch. If you want to go kite there and duke it out with the 300 or so windsurfers that show up on a windy summer day, fill yer boots. There's already guys kiting at the Hatch, but you have to respect the windsurf crowd that's there, because like it or not, its with them you'll be sharing the water. I would have said "we'd like to see the access to kiting continued" because right now, you're making it sound like you're not allowed to kite at the Hatch. If you want the project to change things, and kick out the windsurfers, well, that wouldn't be necessary if the sport was over and no one was windsurfing any more. Finally, kiting is still establishing itself in the Gorge, and its better to speak in terms that will gain respect and goodwill from organzations such as the CGWA which have a heavy membership and real clout as to launch site design and access. Its been 10 years that I've been hearing "windsurfing is cancelled" and yet the sites are over crowed more and more each summer. Last year the number of people using the Event Site was unbelievable, with people parking out side the lot and walking their gear in. Just because a buddy goes kiting one day, and sees only a few windsurfers, doesn't mean that in the US, or worldwide, the sport is "declining". I've started the season with some windsurf sessions at Bob's, and so far have seen one kite on the water... does that mean kiting is on the decline? Lets keep it real, other wise a flame war develops, and kiting stands to lose co-operation from groups/people that could otherwise be very helpful in making it open access for all.

tonyb · Sun Feb 24, 08 9:18 pm

Point taken Slippin Lizard. I do not want to start a flame war. My comment on windsurfing in decline is based on what I hear around the Gorge, SPI, and La Ventana that go something like "back in the 90's this place was packed with windsurfers, but..." and comments from shop owners that have seen windsurfing revenue shrink from the peak of the mid to late 90's. But comments can also be perceived how the listener wants sometimes, too, and when you couple that with everybody you know who used to windsurf is switching over to kiting, one tends to extrapolate farther than one should.

I do not want to imply that "windsurfing has been canceled", just that kiting is growing rapidly in popularity and we would like to not be excluded from a spot because our launch and setup needs have not been taken into consideration. And thanks for pointing out that we are not excluded from kiting at the Hatch (I did make it sound that way, didn't I), but the launch and rigging area is not very kite user friendly.

I absolutely think kiters and windsurfers can get along and share facilities in close proximity. In SPI it works well and at Stevenson we share east point with the windsurfers on Easterlies and everybody gets along fine.

With what ever access that kiters might get near the Hatch or at BL we do need to figure out a way to educate kiters to stay down wind and out of the way of the windsurfers. And to not buzz the fishermen and other boaters on the river. (this was actually a sore point with one of the Tribal Elders who was at the meeting).

Thanks for bringing your points up and in keeping things balanced. I'll strive to do the same.

Tony

tonyb · Mon Feb 25, 08 7:25 am

Damn engineers! Always reverting to math in an argument! Smile

Can't we just have some good old fashioned rhetoric without facts?! Exponential is such a good sounding word.

I'll change the wording Hein, you are correct.

Maybe explosive growth? Which implies a huge expansion followed by a fizzling puff of smoke after the excitement wears off.

Tony

NERDSKI · Since 03 Mar 2006 31 Posts THE DITCH Â

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT BL SHOULD NECESSARILY CONSIDER KITERS & ACCOMODATION AT THE HATCH. AS BOOKMYER STATED DOUBLE BLACK DIAMOND SPOT - WE AS KITERS HAVE EXCELLENT ACCESS AT THE SPIT, HOOK & VIENTO. THOSE THAT BRAVE IT GO OFF THE POINT & TEAR IT UP WITH 200 SAILORS AT THE HATCH. I AGREE THAT THE TWO SPORTS CAN SHARE BEACHES I JUST THINK THIS ONE SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE. i KITE ALMOST DAILY FROM HR OR KLICK AND SAIL ON THE 3.5 DAYS. COULD YOU IMAGINE THE MAYHEM AT THE HATCH IF THERE WAS AN EXPRESS LANE PUT IN FOR KITING. JUST MY 2 CENTS.

forrest · Mon Feb 25, 08 8:35 am

You can't control kiters by keeping the launch a double black diamond. The only thing you can guarantee by that is someone is going to get killed and even worse, kill someone else in the process.

If improvements can be made to make it more user friendly, it should be done. Then we should set some rules on where/how kiters can ride to compensate the Hatch windsurfing community for their generosity in letting kiters ride there. Access needs to be improved for all wind sports and we need to set a tone of improvement in the Gorge. I know no one likes rules, but with a little bit we'll get better access to our beloved water.

On a side note: I've never launched from the hatch, so I don't know how bad/good it is.

bookmyer · Since 23 Feb 2008 6 Posts New Member

The Hatchry is a Wa State Park, for ALL to enjoy, ws community does not need to be compensated for their generosity for allowing kiters EQUAL acsess,

Pepi · Mon Feb 25, 08 11:23 am

Just to make sure that everyone is on the same page with the information regarding the Brougton Landing Development proposal.

There are no plans to make any changes to the Hatchery, nor can there be any changes made to the Hatchery, other than the possibility of paving the parking lot (which no one wants since it would reduce parking) and a proposal of creating a pedestrian tunnel underneath the freeway.
As it stands the Hatchery is State Park property, providing equal access to all unless safety dictates any needs for restricting any potentially dangerous activities (please make note of this for those who have fubar'd their launches and landings at the point without doing a safety check. The Hatch demands a 100% perfect launch, without that, you are toast).

The only waterfront access changes that are planned is by the BLD to develop their own private waterfront property located adjacent to Cheap Beach, to the west. This is currently a private access launch owned by the Stevenson Family and currently used by the Stevensons and their friends.

The CGWA has been involved in discussions with the BLD since around 2005 to ensure that the windsport users feedback to the developers is communicated on an ongoing basis. Since that time, the CGWA membership has been somewhat vocal against the development with the main concern being increased overcrowding of the Swell City-Hatchery Corridor and the possibility of this development leading to other resort developments in the greater Gorge region.

If the CGKA were to make any attempts at becoming an active participant in directing recreational user feedback, it might be a good idea to research the changes being proposed, identify how it might affect kiteboarders that use/would use this area, communicate this info to the kiteboard community to receive survey feedback, then present this information at the next public meeting.
If the kiteboard communities feedback appears to align with that if the windsurf communities desires, it might be a good idea to consider an alliance with the CGWA as a way of building strength in numbers .

I hope that this information is of some help.

Pepi

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Thanks for the info Pepi. Definitely clarified some points for me. Now we just need someone to summarize the proposal and have a vote on how people feel about it.

NERDSKI · Since 03 Mar 2006 31 Posts THE DITCH Â

ROGER THAT - PEPI

Slipin Lizard · Since 23 Sep 2005 88 Posts Hood River, Oregon Â