Forum | Classifieds | Lost & Found | CGKA | Industry | Sensors | Forecast | Spots | Seattle | Decals | RSS | Facebook Events | Photos | Search | Register | Profile | Log in to check your messages | Log in  "Must you kite so close to my student?" Page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next          Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast previous topic :: next topic   Author Message Moto Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth Mon Aug 20, 07 3:06 pm     If you walk around the NW section you will come accross it when the water levels are low. tinyE Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster Mon Aug 20, 07 3:22 pm     yeah... i was standing by it so people (and my student) wouldn't hit it. I don't have to stay at the NW corner... and I don't teach all that often, and go to the sandbar even less... but there are always people teaching there... it would really help to know where to go. tstansbury Since 06 Jun 2006 649 Posts Rowena and P.C Addicted Mon Aug 20, 07 3:40 pm     I was out at about 5 when the wind died and I had to limp in on that area. Hope I was not too close tried to give to people teaching as much room as I could(orange waroo) tinyE Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster Mon Aug 20, 07 4:05 pm     I was in the pub with 2 beers in me by then... I did get to see several self rescues and one guy swim in his kite while I was out there though. shredjim Since 07 Jun 2006 188 Posts Stoked Mon Aug 20, 07 9:46 pm    Re: "Must you kite so close to my student?" FlyinElvis wrote: I'm going to revive this great subject line.... I was wondering when this topic was going to return. FElvis, since I made my original post on it, things have continued to get WAY worse. BUT - not from riders without regard to lessons - It seems like that thread let many people know they were coming in too close and they responded positively buy giving way more room! THANK YOU!!! Now though it is a nubie free-for-all out there. Worst part is numerous inexperienced instructors with students clogging the area with board leashes on and kites in the water. Please - for anybody teaching someone on the sandbar, don't give anyone a board in their hand until they are ready to RIDE it. Towing boards down the beach while crashing the kite only slows down the learning process. Make the student earn the right to get the board in the lesson. Without the proper kite skills the student has not a prayer to ride the board! Thanks again to all the cool riders giving my students more room!!!! Moto Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth Tue Aug 21, 07 7:43 am    Re: "Must you kite so close to my student?" I'm glad people have responded positively! shredjim wrote: FlyinElvis wrote: I'm going to revive this great subject line.... I was wondering when this topic was going to return. FElvis, since I made my original post on it, things have continued to get WAY worse. BUT - not from riders without regard to lessons - It seems like that thread let many people know they were coming in too close and they responded positively buy giving way more room! THANK YOU!!! Now though it is a nubie free-for-all out there. Worst part is numerous inexperienced instructors with students clogging the area with board leashes on and kites in the water. Please - for anybody teaching someone on the sandbar, don't give anyone a board in their hand until they are ready to RIDE it. Towing boards down the beach while crashing the kite only slows down the learning process. Make the student earn the right to get the board in the lesson. Without the proper kite skills the student has not a prayer to ride the board! Thanks again to all the cool riders giving my students more room!!!! Dickfircrick Since 29 May 2007 62 Posts Hood Rever   Wed Aug 22, 07 8:10 pm    Re: "Must you kite so close to my student?" FlyinElvis wrote: I'm going to revive this great subject line.... I was at the sandbar yesterday... NW corner, which I believe was designated as "instruction zone". I was obviously giving instruction to a student (when 2 people are in the water, one is wearing a harness and flying a kite, the other is pointing, demonstrating or other... that's instruction). here are the things that happened in the course of under 2 hours. 1) I watched another instructor as he walked with his student north. we went a safe distance south of him and began (>150 feet away). He then started bringing his student (walking with the kite in the air) right into our fly zone. I left my student flying the kite and walked over to ask him where he was going. His reply "oh, we'll be all along here"... to which I replied, "so will we", implying we might want to share this area and remain safe distances from each other by remaining in our own areas. We moved a bit south, and thankfully, he turned his student back around and went back north out of our fly zone. I'm still not sure what he was thinking. 2) kiters coming in and bombing my student. I know you have to get up wind, but when you cruise by not 20 feet upwind of us, or in from the deep, right at us...even I get nervous. Please make a couple of tacks before bombing by. You know what you're doing, but it can be nerve racking for beginners. 3) Another instructor comes out with his student, not 30 feet from us and puts a kite up in the air. So now we have 2 beginners flying 30 feet apart. I threw a look at the guy, but he obviously didn't care. We walked away a bit and sure enough, my student crashed the kite.... about 5 feet from the other instructors head. After that, he moved off... I guess that is one way to declare your fly zone. 4) I have just taken the kite from my student, we are coming in, close to shore...maybe 10 feet from dry land. There is one kite on the beach being launched, and they are trying to get to water. We are cool, and are going around each other. Some jackass in a pink/yellow 9m waroo comes in from the water, stands right in between us and has his kite in the air flagging.... I try to figure out what he's trying to do, and ask him, "what are you doing?"... he just looks at me with this poop eating grin and says nothing.... grabs the handle, and then lets it go...kite flags again.... I grabbed my kite and board and hopped out of there before the kites got tangled.... I went out for a quick tack and then came in a little south of him to get away from him.... as I looked back, I saw him bouncing off his face through a puddle on the other side of the Western hump... karma is a bitch. it's tough to find an area to teach. We walked all the way across the sandbar to get away from people (it was barren but for one teacher/student when we got there). The sandbar is huge... .give the noobs some space.... please! </rant and rave> Dickfircrick Since 29 May 2007 62 Posts Hood Rever   Wed Aug 22, 07 10:22 pm    Re: "Must you kite so close to my student?" FlyinElvis wrote: I'm going to revive this great subject line.... I was at the sandbar yesterday... NW corner, which I believe was designated as "instruction zone". I was obviously giving instruction to a student (when 2 people are in the water, one is wearing a harness and flying a kite, the other is pointing, demonstrating or other... that's instruction). here are the things that happened in the course of under 2 hours. 1) I watched another instructor as he walked with his student north. we went a safe distance south of him and began (>150 feet away). He then started bringing his student (walking with the kite in the air) right into our fly zone. I left my student flying the kite and walked over to ask him where he was going. His reply "oh, we'll be all along here"... to which I replied, "so will we", implying we might want to share this area and remain safe distances from each other by remaining in our own areas. We moved a bit south, and thankfully, he turned his student back around and went back north out of our fly zone. I'm still not sure what he was thinking. 2) kiters coming in and bombing my student. I know you have to get up wind, but when you cruise by not 20 feet upwind of us, or in from the deep, right at us...even I get nervous. Please make a couple of tacks before bombing by. You know what you're doing, but it can be nerve racking for beginners. 3) Another instructor comes out with his student, not 30 feet from us and puts a kite up in the air. So now we have 2 beginners flying 30 feet apart. I threw a look at the guy, but he obviously didn't care. We walked away a bit and sure enough, my student crashed the kite.... about 5 feet from the other instructors head. After that, he moved off... I guess that is one way to declare your fly zone. 4) I have just taken the kite from my student, we are coming in, close to shore...maybe 10 feet from dry land. There is one kite on the beach being launched, and they are trying to get to water. We are cool, and are going around each other. Some jackass in a pink/yellow 9m waroo comes in from the water, stands right in between us and has his kite in the air flagging.... I try to figure out what he's trying to do, and ask him, "what are you doing?"... he just looks at me with this poop eating grin and says nothing.... grabs the handle, and then lets it go...kite flags again.... I grabbed my kite and board and hopped out of there before the kites got tangled.... I went out for a quick tack and then came in a little south of him to get away from him.... as I looked back, I saw him bouncing off his face through a puddle on the other side of the Western hump... karma is a bitch. it's tough to find an area to teach. We walked all the way across the sandbar to get away from people (it was barren but for one teacher/student when we got there). The sandbar is huge... .give the noobs some space.... please! </rant and rave> magicmaker Since 29 Oct 2006 895 Posts da Hood Opinionated Thu Aug 23, 07 7:39 am     kitezilla wrote: I believe that those 3 or 4 white clorox bottles are marking submerged dead head stumps at the NW corner. what white clorox bottles? DownStream Since 18 Apr 2007 381 Posts Obsessed Thu Aug 23, 07 10:15 am     so flying elvis, who do you teach for again? just incase your answer is what i think it might be...if your not certified, insured, and paying the port's concessions fees, then i wouldnt be talking about the lessons your teaching. just a friendly heads up jpbowles Since 01 Aug 2007 3 Posts New Member Thu Aug 23, 07 10:27 am    "Must you kite so close to my student?" Yes I must...... Anarchy lives....... Signed the black kite bandit...... kitezilla Since 22 Jun 2006 453 Posts gorge Obsessed Thu Aug 23, 07 10:38 am     magicmaker wrote: kitezilla wrote: I believe that those 3 or 4 white clorox bottles are marking submerged dead head stumps at the NW corner. what white clorox bottles? Yeah, I noticed that the bottles were gone yesterday...let's hope the hazards are gone too...i doubt it. Here is another thought on the issue of marking hazards: I think that officially, any hazard is suppose to be marked with the official cylinder hazard buoy. I really doubt that some official removed the unauthorized white buoys, and I imagine that they broke loose and floated away....still...I would like to know the answer. Anyone know? tinyE Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster Thu Aug 23, 07 10:53 am     DownStream wrote: so flying elvis, who do you teach for again? just incase your answer is what i think it might be...if your not certified, insured, and paying the port's concessions fees, then i wouldnt be talking about the lessons your teaching. just a friendly heads up thanks... but I don't need a certification or to pay port fees unless I am trying to make a business out of it. I can teach anyone I want anywhere I want as long as I'm being safe about it. In all cases so far, the student has been a personal friend that wanted to learn, and I taught them for free. I would give free lessons to everyone if the insurance thing wasn't there. I don't need to make money doing this, and I've found a way to enjoy kiting and teach at the same time. Just because I'm not a HR business doesn't mean my students don't deserve the same respect. All I'm asking for is a safe area for learners to practice their kiting with some instruction. I believe the local shops, and especially the port will be on my side. Moto Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth Thu Aug 23, 07 10:56 am     We all have the privilege of using the water!! FlyinElvis wrote: DownStream wrote: so flying elvis, who do you teach for again? just incase your answer is what i think it might be...if your not certified, insured, and paying the port's concessions fees, then i wouldnt be talking about the lessons your teaching. just a friendly heads up thanks... but I don't need a certification or to pay port fees unless I am trying to make a business out of it. I can teach anyone I want anywhere I want as long as I'm being safe about it. In all cases so far, the student has been a personal friend that wanted to learn, and I taught them for free. I would give free lessons to everyone if the insurance thing wasn't there. I don't need to make money doing this, and I've found a way to enjoy kiting and teach at the same time. Just because I'm not a HR business doesn't mean my students don't deserve the same respect. All I'm asking for is a safe area for learners to practice their kiting with some instruction. I believe the local shops, and especially the port will be on my side. brass Since 15 Jul 2006 152 Posts Stoked Thu Aug 23, 07 11:27 am     Hmm I may have to go with DownStream a little bit on this one. With all the new kooks flocking to our sport I say if you are going to get your buddy into the sport then you have an obligation to put them through one of the Liscenced schools. This way we can ensure that there are a higher percentage of kiters out there that know what the hell is going on. Additionally, we, as a community, are helping out the local industry who are helping to boost the sport and are looking out for our interests with the Port and local government (like Jim from NewWind). Do you know how hard it is to make it in the outdoor sporting industry? I didn't have the benefit of kite schools when I learned but wish I had. Any of my buddies that asks me to teach them I tell them to take a lesson from the pros. It is worth the cost and you learn what no to do, as much as what to do, by the people who are connected with safety concerns in our sport globally. I am not saying you don't know what you are doing FlyinElvis but at least get certified. It would make me feel better. tinyE Since 21 Jan 2006 2004 Posts not really an XTreme Poster Thu Aug 23, 07 12:03 pm     brass wrote: Hmm I may have to go with DownStream a little bit on this one. With all the new kooks flocking to our sport I say if you are going to get your buddy into the sport then you have an obligation to put them through one of the Liscenced schools. This way we can ensure that there are a higher percentage of kiters out there that know what the hell is going on. Additionally, we, as a community, are helping out the local industry who are helping to boost the sport and are looking out for our interests with the Port and local government (like Jim from NewWind). Do you know how hard it is to make it in the outdoor sporting industry? I didn't have the benefit of kite schools when I learned but wish I had. Any of my buddies that asks me to teach them I tell them to take a lesson from the pros. It is worth the cost and you learn what no to do, as much as what to do, by the people who are connected with safety concerns in our sport globally. I am not saying you don't know what you are doing FlyinElvis but at least get certified. It would make me feel better. you guys are hi-jacking this thread, but i'll bite. Obligation? My obligation is to help someone try something safely that they have an interest in. My obligation stops there. Personally I think that the HR lessons are over priced. If you/they want me to support them, then they need to return the favor. Renee only charges $50 an hour for a private lesson in Stevenson. HR charges $100...wtf? Why should I try to help out someone "trying to make it in the sporting industry"? If they can't make it on their own, then they are in the wrong field. I don't see myself as competition to them anyway. If anything, I am supplementing their income by getting someone new into the sport. Also, just because I don't hold the paper saying I'm certified doesn't mean I'm not qualified to teach. For one, certifications only happen once in a blue moon around here, and usually at an inopportune time (like during the week). Paper is paper. I'm safe, and I teach safety first. Before a kite ever goes in the air, my students know how to avoid incidents, and how to get free of them if they do happen.... I took lessons from a 'certified' instructor and never got any of that.... not even how to release the CL. I can say that no accidents or injuries have ever happened during one of my lessons. I have seen injuries and accidents, torn kites, and needed rescues from certified instructors. Some people need the certification to say they have it. Schools have to have it to get insured. I'm no pro at kiting, but I studied a lot of training courses while learning, and a lot more since, and I know I can teach someone to kite safely. Now, this thread was about establishing a training area on the Sandbar. Unless you are discussing that here, please start a new thread. I'll argue with you all you want over there! (I'm sitting here remembering PKH's post about people who argue on the internet). Otherwise, moving forward, I won't stop teaching, but I'll make sure that I'm teaching out of your way, so you will feel better. magicmaker Since 29 Oct 2006 895 Posts da Hood Opinionated Thu Aug 23, 07 12:13 pm     I'm with FlyinElvis on this one. If I want to take someone out on one of my kites that is a risk i choose to take. I've taken my girlfriend and little brother out numerous times on the NW corner and never had one incident, except when another person learning (and i'm pretty sure he was in a paid lesson) decided to fly to close to me, their kite hindenberged and came down right on top of the lines of the kite my girlfriend was flying This just goes to show that it can be an experienced/insured/certified instructor and sh** still happens; it doesn't matter. Fortunately, i was there standing right next to my girlfriend and was able to detach the safety leash from her, take control of the bar, tell her to get the F out of the way and get my kite and I out of a potentially dangerous situation. The student in the paid lesson was VERY grateful i knew what i was doing, as was their instructor. If someone is confident enough in their skills to teach someone how to fly a kite, then let them be, give them room. Unfortunately there are some kooks out there, that should by NO means be teaching and if they cause someone else's gear to get damaged or hurt someone else then they are going to have to pay that price. You can tell these guys, as they are usually people on land flying a 9m (brand edited out) go death spriraling down the beach. We've seen this happen a few times already this year and hopefully it was a wakeup call to those guys that they shouldn't be doing what they were. If i see people flying a big LEI kite on land, you can sure as hell bet, i am going to approach them and ask what is up. I have been in the process of arranging certified instruction for both my girlfriend and little bro; i only want to teach them how to fly a kite and body drag a little. Stuff where i can stay close and hold onto their harness and/or take control of the kite if need be. Once they are ready to ride a board, then they need to be taken out on a jet ski away from the crowds or get a lesson on a day where it is NOT crowded. Having lots of room is key for a safe lesson, that is why this thread was even started. Another thing is, i generally only teach on lighter wind days when it is not windy enough for me and there are fewer people on the water. I'm sure FlyinElvis, and any other competent kiter looking to teach, would take into consideration how crowded it is at the beach before deciding to take an inexperienced kite flyer out when it could be a potentially dangerous.situation.        Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast All times are GMT - 8 Hours Page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next Page 2 of 3   Jump to: Select a forum Northwest Kiteboarding Discussion Forum----------------Gorge / Portland / Oregon CoastFor SaleLost & FoundIndustry SoapboxCGKA  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You can attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum