"Kite Loop" or "Down Loop"?

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2575 Posts The 503 METAL

What do you call this move? (And I'm not trying to say it's anything sweet so don't bother heckling)

1. From heelside, send the kite and initiate a hooked-in back roll.

2. At the apex of the jump, pull hard on your back hand.

3. Kite loops around as you descend and you land going the same direction

or

you land headed straight down wind and continue looping the kite and head back the other way.

Question

tstansbury · Since 06 Jun 2006 649 Posts Rowena and P.C Addicted

back roll with a kite loop

NateDogg · Fri Aug 03, 07 8:55 am **Closer to a kiteloop**

Of the two, kiteloop or downloop, it'd be closer to a kiteloop. A downloop would be pulling on the front hand. After boosting, try the downloop just before you land for solid air transitions

boardrider · Since 05 Apr 2006 1034 Posts Ventura, CA XTreme Poster

I would call it (c) - Fun as shit. Twisted Evil

Isn't that basically what Ruben does - boosts then back-loop @ apex of jump? - maybe throws in a couple more on the way down. Are you trying to make a distiction between finishing, and not finishing the loop prior to landing ?

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1873 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

SUper Fun, YES!

Anyways, yeah, in the last issue of Kiteboarder you see Ruben throw this move in a sequence....he just has way more amplitude obviously....but, same trick...hooked-in backrol, and the kite makes the same loop you do right...

So Slither, your lines aren't twisted at the end are they...? Rolling Eyes

I will look for the pic of Ruben, but he throws the backrol, just as he comes around he is looping it, so when he gets yanked during the loop, he just hangs on and ads a super steezed tail grab.
-It really helps understand the trick I think!

I had a hard time tonning these down, so I don't over-rotate the rol....still working on that. Very Happy

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2575 Posts The 503 METAL

Right, when you come out your lines aren't twisted.

"Back roll with kite loop" was the answer I was looking for. I have people I sail with who seem hell-bent on calling this a "down loop". Crying or Very sad

Again, not that's it's some great move, but I'll take all the kite-loop credits I can get! Twisted Evil

I have heard somewhere people referring to any "low power" kite loop i.e. starting the loop with your kite at or near neutral, as down looping (Versus a powered kite loop where you start the loop with the kite low). In my book a "down loop" is when you loop the kite forward 180 degrees and transition back the other way. If the kite loops 360 degrees (forward or back) it's a "kite loop"

New question: what differentiates a "back roll with kite loop" with an "F-16"?

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

My understanding is an F-16 is unhooked.

TWIN-FIN · Since 24 May 2006 805 Posts Portland, OR Hot Monkey

I think the difference between the back roll kite loop and the F-16 is completing the trick uh-hooked?

Hooked in to chicken loop = back roll kite loop
Un-hooked = F-16.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Not that I can do either of them, but aspire to land them someday.

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2575 Posts The 503 METAL

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1873 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

http://www.kiteworldtour.com/index.php?option=com_trick_list&task=view&Itemid=45

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

I haven't tried an F-16 yet, but my guess is when you pull the move unhooked it extends you out from the fact that all the pull now goes through the arms.

Wind Slither · Since 04 Mar 2005 2575 Posts The 503 METAL

Chanson wrote: http://www.kiteworldtour.com/index.php?option=com_trick_list&task=view&Itemid=45

That's a good listing...here's what they say about a back roll with kite loop

"A hook in back roll while doing an up-loop kiteloop at the same time. (Like an F16 but hooked in)"

What do they mean exactly by "up-loop"? Does it mean looping the kite back as opposed to forwards? Or does it mean starting the kite loop from somewhere below neutral?

In the Bertrand F-16 video you can see he starts it low but it does pause at neutral for a sec before completing the loop.

Kodiak · Since 01 Aug 2005 1114 Posts Slidey

You start the kiteloop from below neutral. My understanding is you also want to have more speed going into an F-16 than you would a backroll kiteloop.

Even if you actually don't pull the trigger before the kite is in nutral on the loop, you were traveling one direction and you sent the kite up and back the other direction. The down loop is just sending the kite the same direction you were originally travelling.

bleighty · Since 17 Apr 2006 86 Posts St. Petersburg, FL

check out the progression Advanced dvd... goes into detailed explanation on all these..

from what i understand:::::::>>>

kiteloop is a jump w/ backhand pull loop of the kite.. hooked or unhooked.

throw in a backroll and if you are hooked in, its simply a backroll kiteloop..

if you are unhooked its an f-16.. but I personally think the term f-16 came from those rocket-powered unhooked loops that send the rider level w/ the kite.. but in keeping with the "definition" its simply an unhooked backroll with a kiteloop.

downloop is pulling from the front hand.

you can do a downloop transition w/o a jump.. (easy and good way to get used to the power of a looping kite)

you can do a jump w/ a downloop that typically is done for a transition.. very stylish to hit these w/ a frontroll for a smooth transition.

you can also do an unhook jump with a downloop that looks a lot more like a raley with a downloop. a downloop does not generate that upwards pull that a kiteloop does so the jump must be initiated with your popping skills..

the progression DVD is really good at giving tons of details and angles to see the tricks. my kiteloops/downloops are currently all in crash-and-burn state.. hope to improve that when i get some wind in oregon in about 1 week!

boardrider · Since 05 Apr 2006 1034 Posts Ventura, CA XTreme Poster

So what kite position are you guys starting your back-loops (up-loops) - I've bee starting them w/ slow - med. board speed w/ kite @ 10 o'clock with a slower pull to 12o' - then crank. Seems to generate alot of pull even in lighter winds. Is this 'correct' - ie. am I practicing something that will hinder my progression?

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1873 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

hmmm..

I start my backrol..(usually a little slower than normal cuz I have been beaten and now kinda timid, I know kinda poonish), anyways, once I am looking at the sky and my kite(I think the kite is in 11oclock), then I continue to pull as I complete the rotation.....So, I am getting the horizontal pull when I am almost right-side up.

but this all happens really quick. I just pull a little harder when I see the sky, so half-way around in the rol!! Very Happy

Chris, where are you kiting this weekend..?

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1873 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

So, this weekend I started trying unhooked backrols(I think).....and thats probably why my wrist is in major pain....but anyways..

-Curious...when I was doing them unhooked I would pop and go into a raley, then tuck my back shoulder and finish the roll... Is that still a backroll??? I looked at my video and it looks like a extended backroll as it looks like a upside-down raley half-way through it......but not quite a S-Bend I think.... They just felt way different than the hooked-in backrols.
Confused

When is it officially a S-Bend....? Raley-360ish..?