Northwest Kiteboarding
Forum | Classifieds | Lost & Found | CGKA | Industry | Sensors | Forecast | Spots | Seattle | Decals | RSS | Facebook

Events | Photos | Search | Register | Profile | Log in to check your messages | Log in 

Winging force on arms/shoulders?
Page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
previous topic :: next topic  
Author Message
markamcclure

Since 20 May 2011
164 Posts
Portland, OR
Stoked



PostFri Jun 11, 21 9:08 am    Winging force on arms/shoulders? Reply with quote

Winging looks fun, but I am wondering if it is hard on the shoulders. Mine get sore after kiting with just one hand on the bar. Old age/arthritic? Back in the day, carrying my windsurf rig to/from the beach was never easy either.

It looks like your shoulders take most of the weight while winging. Advice? I like the idea of just making turns on swell with the wing. I am also thinking about trying one at the hook (steep $50 rental). Worth it?

View user's profile Send private message
ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1470 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostFri Jun 11, 21 10:56 am    Re: Winging force on arms/shoulders? Reply with quote

markamcclure wrote:
Winging looks fun, but I am wondering if it is hard on the shoulders. Mine get sore after kiting with just one hand on the bar. Old age/arthritic? Back in the day, carrying my windsurf rig to/from the beach was never easy either.

It looks like your shoulders take most of the weight while winging. Advice? I like the idea of just making turns on swell with the wing. I am also thinking about trying one at the hook (steep $50 rental). Worth it?


Have you considered working out (pushups, arm exercises using light barbells)?
Try this - sit on your knees with your arms in the air, extend one leg forward and pop-up while holding your arms in the air. I'm noticing that 50% of my kite friends over the age of 50 cannot do this and will never be able to wing.
Now imagine doing that in the middle of the Columbia with 5 foot waves crashing around you. You won't be riding swell on a mellow day - it takes 20-30mph to kick up the swell you'll need for gliding on a foil.

If you already know how to foil and you have windsurfing experience it's worth a try as you should rapidly advance thru the learning phase (relying on muscle vs. technique).
If you don't foil and were never proficient at windsurfing - your shoulders will suffer thru the learning curve(30-50 sessions). At the very least you should start doing push-ups and arm exercises with light weights or bands to prepare.

Finally - I would say 8 out of 10 people who take up winging never get beyond the out and back phase; crashing at the end of every reach. Only 2 in 10 progress to jybing, and 1 in 10 to foot switches and riding swell.

$50 is cheap. Name one thing you can rent cheaper than $50. Wink

View user's profile Send private message
Singlemalt

Since 21 Jun 2015
460 Posts
White Salmon
Obsessed



PostFri Jun 11, 21 12:25 pm     Reply with quote

Yoga. Check out Yoga with Adrienne on YouTube. She’s doing an awesome job, which is why she’s got 10 million subscribers. Yoga will quickly go from a chore to an addiction. Great for your head, awesome for your body. No twangy music.

I’m wing curious, but my knees aren’t going to tolerate the learning curve. Bursitis is no joke. I think I’m going to pass on this one.

Now that I’ve made it through the brutal learning phase, kiting on a foil is easy on my body. Way more relaxed and fluid than windsurfing or other kite modes.

_________________
Pull the cork.

View user's profile Send private message
markamcclure

Since 20 May 2011
164 Posts
Portland, OR
Stoked



PostFri Jun 11, 21 12:45 pm     Reply with quote

I passed the pop up test. I do push-ups and daily yoga stretches, too, which have been excellent for the lower back. So I guess I am ready to wing. Very Happy

View user's profile Send private message
TommyK

Since 18 May 2015
47 Posts

 



PostFri Jun 11, 21 1:07 pm     Reply with quote

I am a old windsurfer and 8 yr kiter.
I have been winging since mid August - about 30 sessions ......
Advise here and elsewhere on NWKite is spot on

The only thing I will add is that winging is like all wind sports....

You are either plaining or complaining Very Happy

View user's profile Send private message
user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
390 Posts
Portland
Obsessed



PostFri Jun 11, 21 1:48 pm    Re: Winging force on arms/shoulders? Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:

$50 is cheap. Name one thing you can rent cheaper than $50. Wink


You obviously aren't much of a couch potato - the answer most would give is "a movie"!

I just started winging this season and definitely still lacking technique, using a lot of unnecessary muscle. So at my stage winging is exhausting. But that's a good thing and was part of the motivation to learn as kite foiling doesn't feel like much of a workout anymore.

Laird are you (or anyone else) using a harness and harness line? My shoulders seem to hold up but I definitely get some forearm pump from holding the wing, even when I'm up plaining on the foil. Also I'm on a big front wing right now. Does moving to a higher aspect/more efficient wing lower the forces on the arms and shoulders?

View user's profile Send private message
oliver19

Since 25 Jun 2019
77 Posts

 



PostFri Jun 11, 21 2:24 pm     Reply with quote

I have been winging for over a year now and I do not think it is particularly hard on the shoulders. It does work the upper body much more than kiting and you have to build up gradually so you don't develop soft tissue problems like tendonitis. I think most reasonably fit people have the physical ability to wing. It does take some commitment to "get it" however.

I am surprised by the statement that most do not progress to the jibing stage. What is the source of that information?

View user's profile Send private message
Sasquatch

Since 09 Mar 2005
2053 Posts
PNW
Bigfoot



PostFri Jun 11, 21 2:38 pm    Re: Winging force on arms/shoulders? Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:

Try this - sit on your knees with your arms in the air, extend one leg forward and pop-up while holding your arms in the air.


I'm having a hard time envisioning this. How does one sit on their knees? Do you mean sit on top of your lower legs with your feet extending passed you butt? Then extending one leg out and trying to stand? I can't do this as all my weigh is on/over one leg and my feet (arch side ) aren't even planted upon the ground. And are one's arms up above one's shoulders like a jumping-jack?

Go a video link?

View user's profile Send private message
oliver19

Since 25 Jun 2019
77 Posts

 



PostFri Jun 11, 21 2:39 pm    Re: Winging force on arms/shoulders? Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:
markamcclure wrote:
Winging looks fun, but I am wondering if it is hard on the shoulders. Mine get sore after kiting with just one hand on the bar. Old age/arthritic? Back in the day, carrying my windsurf rig to/from the beach was never easy either.

It looks like your shoulders take most of the weight while winging. Advice? I like the idea of just making turns on swell with the wing. I am also thinking about trying one at the hook (steep $50 rental). Worth it?


Have you considered working out (pushups, arm exercises using light barbells)?
Try this - sit on your knees with your arms in the air, extend one leg forward and pop-up while holding your arms in the air. I'm noticing that 50% of my kite friends over the age of 50 cannot do this and will never be able to wing.
Now imagine doing that in the middle of the Columbia with 5 foot waves crashing around you. You won't be riding swell on a mellow day - it takes 20-30mph to kick up the swell you'll need for gliding on a foil.

If you already know how to foil and you have windsurfing experience it's worth a try as you should rapidly advance thru the learning phase (relying on muscle vs. technique).
If you don't foil and were never proficient at windsurfing - your shoulders will suffer thru the learning curve(30-50 sessions). At the very least you should start doing push-ups and arm exercises with light weights or bands to prepare.

Finally - I would say 8 out of 10 people who take up winging never get beyond the out and back phase; crashing at the end of every reach. Only 2 in 10 progress to jybing, and 1 in 10 to foot switches and riding swell.

$50 is cheap. Name one thing you can rent cheaper than $50. Wink


Having read this again, I have to respectfully disagree and question some of the claims. I really do not think winging is that difficult physically. And the majority of people I know personally who have started winging have progressed to the jibing stage and beyond. And they are all over 50 and 60. And finally, you can have tons of fun gliding downwind on small chop. Winging allows you to use larger and higher aspect foils so small swell is super fun. The ES near the WS bridge has rideable swell if wind is over 15 avg, due to the countercurrent. Of course, the bigger stuff is much more fun and can be enjoyed with smaller, faster foils.

Renting a wing and playing around is fine but it is like a tourist renting a windsurf rig and schlogging around and thinking they are windsurfing. Nothing like the real thing.

View user's profile Send private message
pauls

Since 20 Jun 2005
562 Posts
white salmon
Addicted



PostFri Jun 11, 21 2:55 pm     Reply with quote

I'm just learning to wing. Learning how to get up has been hard. Really, really hard on the arthritis in my feet. I bought a pair of NRS Workboots lose some feeling but big boost in stability to my screwed up feet and and ankles. Bonus they are great for the walk of shame back to the hook!

View user's profile Send private message
ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1470 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostFri Jun 11, 21 3:08 pm    Re: Winging force on arms/shoulders? Reply with quote

Sasquatch wrote:
ldhr wrote:

Try this - sit on your knees with your arms in the air, extend one leg forward and pop-up while holding your arms in the air.


I'm having a hard time envisioning this. How does one sit on their knees? Do you mean sit on top of your lower legs with your feet extending passed you butt? Then extending one leg out and trying to stand? I can't do this as all my weigh is on/over one leg and my feet (arch side ) aren't even planted upon the ground. And are one's arms up above one's shoulders like a jumping-jack?

Go a video link?


more accurate description -
kneel down on both knees
raise your hands above your head
lift one leg and extend one foot forward until you can put your sole on the ground
now stand straight up with your weight evenly distributed between your two feet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ_t6GV6cmk

Last edited by ldhr on Fri Jun 11, 21 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

View user's profile Send private message
ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1470 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostFri Jun 11, 21 3:16 pm    Re: Winging force on arms/shoulders? Reply with quote

user124 wrote:


Laird are you (or anyone else) using a harness and harness line? My shoulders seem to hold up but I definitely get some forearm pump from holding the wing, even when I'm up plaining on the foil. Also I'm on a big front wing right now. Does moving to a higher aspect/more efficient wing lower the forces on the arms and shoulders?


I use a harness - mostly for long upwind reaches.
I've had 4 different quivers of wings.... some wings and handle types will get you pumped while others not so much. PM me if you want specifics.
Pepi at Pure Stoke hooked me up with the Ozone harness - muy bueno. https://ozonekites.com/products/harnesses/connect-wing-harness/

Yes - moving to a higher aspect wing changes everything.... for the better IMO.
I'm currently riding the Moses 940 surf wing and the whole experience has become amazingly fun and easy. The stress on my arms is greatly reduced.
YMMV....Some friends who switched to HA wings from another brand have been challenged by the transition.

View user's profile Send private message
moondog

Since 15 Aug 2007
697 Posts
white salmon
Addicted

CGKA Member


PostFri Jun 11, 21 9:21 pm     Reply with quote

I’m 70 and just finished session 3 on my wing . I have a Moses 790 front wing and 450 back . A 125 liter board. There were many muscles I didn’t know I had in my back and arms that were very sore. I haven’t used them in 3 years kite foiling. No shoulder, arm or knee issues, but taking a day off my body aches have recovered. Great videos on utube and lots of friendly advice at the Event site. A great spot to learn is the hook and then downwinders to Lurh Jensen or the ES.
_________________
moondog

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Wind Slither

Since 04 Mar 2005
2570 Posts
The 503
METAL



PostSat Jun 12, 21 7:25 am     Reply with quote

I haven't tried a harness yet, but find if my power is right it's not too hard on me, but when I'm under or over powered I get fatigue. Also, I don't think the handles on my Slingwings are a great design. On the V1 they are too wide causing my forearms to kill like a windsurf boom that's round and too thick. The loops on the V2 are too short and I can only get 3 fingers in. The wing designs with the longer, thinner hand holds look better.

I'd say (at least while learning) the fatigue is along the lines of windsurfing.

View user's profile Send private message
luke

Since 06 Jul 2005
399 Posts

Obsessed



PostSat Jun 12, 21 7:36 am    johnny Reply with quote

From limited 3 week experience. In the beginning there is muscle soreness. Minor back and arm. Not really shoulder. Seems like there is very little stress on shoulders (or anywhere) as wingers gain experience. Except at 0:41 when he tacks.
Johnny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYIDWHLNyw

View user's profile Send private message
kitebot

Since 20 Feb 2007
251 Posts

Obsessed



PostMon Jun 14, 21 9:00 am     Reply with quote

$50 is a bargain! Winging should actually be pretty easy with your watersports background, especially if you've foiled before. You'll be sore when you start out, but it's just an overall ache rather than anything specific. It's way less work than windsurfing and a harness can easily be used to give you a break on the water once you are making consistent reaches after a few sessions. Lots of people seem hesitant to use a harness, maybe because they think you need to be strapped in, but it's even easier than using a harness windsurfing as it's so easy to hook/unhook. Good luck!

View user's profile Send private message
Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1313 Posts

Possessed



PostMon Jun 14, 21 7:18 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks for the great info.
I am ready to take the plunge
now that water is fairly comfortable.

Waist leash or ankle leash for board?
Which Armstrong front wing? 1550, HS1850 or 2400?
Presently board is set up with 72cm mast and 1550.

I'm 155 lbs and proficient wake foiling but
not so much with kites.

Thanks,
Hein

View user's profile Send private message
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum