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kitekid
Since 15 Apr 2007
170 Posts
Stoked
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 Sat Jun 16, 07 10:19 am HELMETS |
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| so i spilt my helmet open last night wich ended up knocking me out for a sec. so i am looking for a helmet that wont brake. any ideas?? |
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tautologies
Since 24 Aug 2006
602 Posts
Oahu
Addicted
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| Sat Jun 16, 07 11:08 am |
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I think any helmet will split if the hit is hard enough.
Here are some tings that came up in discussions (Rick Iossi)
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There is NO kiteboarding helmet standard in use at this time. ASTM may develop one in the future.
So, you need to select a helmet designed for another activity in these early days. Helmets certified for water activities may hold an EN 1385 designation.
A helmet certified for alpine activities may hold an EN 1077 designation.
Of the two, the EN 1077 seems to be the more rigorous standard. Then again, you can get away with more bulk and drag characteristics with a snowboarding or skiing helmet than one used for kiteboarding. So, IF you can find an EN 1077 certified helmet that ALSO satisfies good performance attributes for kiteboarding, some ideas appear below, great. If not, try to find something that is EN 1385 certified that ALSO has good performance attributes for kiteboarding. New certifications for water activities are in development such as work underway by ASTM. Existing standards may leave some room for improvement.
So, what do you do?
You need to do your homework and select the best helmet that suits your needs as a kiteboarder. These have been repeated many times in the past but here goes again ...
Some ideas about things to look for in a good helmet for kiteboarding. He good helmet needs to offer the best protection feasible against an impact at speed against a hard object, this means an adequate thickness of high quality padding. At the same time, the helmet can't have too much weight, drag (be too big or have projections such as fixed sunvisors) or collect water which could cause neck injury with frequent high speed impact against water. So, you want a helmet with padding, just not too much, catch 22 these days.
In general a good helmet for kiteboarding should:
- Be comfortable and fit well
- Have a good, secure non-corrosible fastening system. The fastening should not release easily and in time may need to be replaced.
- Have adequate, good quality padding (not spongy or soft). One impact polystyrene (styrofoam) is stated to have superior impact protection qualitiies over multiple impact foams).
- Be light and have low drag (that is relatively smooth with no fixed projections such as visors, or have excessive size)
- Have a good shell, kevlar would be better than ABS plastic in some impacts to reduce the odds of shell piercing and yielding.
- Not collect water or have poor draining characteristics that contribute to "bucketing."
- Decide whether you want ear cover or not. Uncovered ears have been perforated on impact with the water in the past. Some people don't like the loss of hearing and sound effects that can result from ear covering.
- Be readily visible as opposed to blending in with the water
- A recognized certifications such as CE EN and ASTM should be a plus
- Looking sporty is a plus but THIS SHOULDN'T BE your main consideration in a critical piece of safety gear that may save your noggin or perhaps mess up your neck someday because of appearence "enhancements."
- Have some sort of good track record among kiteboarders. In these early days not a lot of helmets seem to have been used by a lot of kiteboarders, yet. So this may be more elusive at this time.
etc.
IMPORTANT POINT
People with preexisting neck injuries or sensitive necks may not react all that well to the frequent whiplash environment of kiteboarding, particularly the learning part. A helmet can add ounces and minute drag to perhaps aggravate this preexisting sensitivity. If these considerations apply, perhaps kiteboarding isn't a particularly good sport for you much less with a helmet.
More about helmet considerations at:
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2300705&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=bucketing
From: http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2313082
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Also a guy who wrote Gath about helmets got this response:
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Thank you for your email - and for writing directly to us to get a "heads
up" on the level of protection provided by a Gath.
I have attached a "Level of Protection" document, which may help explain the
considerations from our point of view.
After you have read this document you will understand :
1) There is only one internationally recognized Standard for a watersport
and that is EN1385. This Standard is a whitewater standard for canoeists
and paddlers in water classes 1-4, Classes 5-6 being outside the scope of
the Standard. It is inappropriate to apply this Standard for all
watersports - and we have given some of the reasoning for this in our
document.
2) Gath helmets are not designed for high speed impacts against fixed
solid objects - like a seawall - nor, for that matter are most helmets which
are designed primarily for use in and on the water. It is also true to
state that whilst some may have higher levels of direct head impact
protection, they may fall down in other vital areas - such as fit - and
therefore stability. A helmet that does not afford a stable fit, will
shift more on impact and may fail to protect the rider, or indeed it may be
hazardous for other injury mechanisms.
3) By nature of design in today's marketplace - a helmet that affords
higher levels of direct impact protection will be heavier and more
voluminous than a Gath. For many riders, particularly those in surfing
sports, this is entirely unsuitable. Such a helmet will have more drag,
with continuous wear often resulting in neck ache and head "wrenching".
The helmet could also be potentially hazardous for the "scoop" or "bucket"
effect - widely know to cause neck and spinal injury upon impact with the
water - particularly from height or at speed. This is what we mean by a
"trade off". A measure of impact protection, for a lightweight snug
fitting helmet with maximum stability, that still offers a reasonable degree
of protection from a wide range of injury mechanisms likely to be
encountered in and on the water, without by its own design causing
additional concerns for safety.
4) It may be of interest to to note that many surfing, kitesurfing and
windsurfing riders are still choosing not to wear any head protection
whatsoever because they do not like any amount of extra drag nor even the
most minimal head wrenching, claiming that even the wearing of a Gath can be
problematic in this regard. Whilst we strive to give that balance of
protection, and our helmets are claimed by many to be just the perfect
combination.......it seems to be impossible provide the answers for all.
5) It is also pertinent to state that it should not be assumed that
because a helmet shell cracks upon significant impact, it is less than
optimal for impact protection. Impact protection is primarily afforded by
the liner system of a helmet, the extent of coverage, fit and retention -
all these criteria work together to determine the ability of a helmet to
protect the head from injury. Today's plastics are tough, lightweight and
resiliant. For this reason, they are used widely by many helmet
manufacturers - including the makers of helmets for the snow, which are
accredited to higher levels of impact standards testing. It is also
relevant to note that many of today's car bodies are manufactured using high
impact plastics, which are design to deform upon impact, performing better
in impact testing than some of the earlier, more rigid bodied cars, produced
from metal compounds.
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I use a shredready.com helmet, and I am happy with it..to what extent it will protect me..I don;t really know...it will be better than nothing I guess. I know this is bad, but there aren't really a good way to know this as long as the certifications are almost non existent....
a. |
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pdxmonkeyboy
Since 16 May 2006
6081 Posts
forever labled as the
retired kiter & motorhead Unicorn Master
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| Sat Jun 16, 07 2:18 pm |
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| ummm they are SUPPOSED to split and therefore displace the energy that would have scrambled your brains. |
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wyolitup
Since 02 Oct 2006
9 Posts
New Member
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| Sat Jun 16, 07 6:18 pm helmet |
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| check out Sweet helmets click on white water models and check out the strutter, great quality but not cheap but cheaper than a broken head!! |
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windwatcher
Since 18 Aug 2005
26 Posts
B.C. Canada
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Kraemer
Since 24 Apr 2006
1736 Posts
Sky Pilot
Unicorn Captain
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EdG
Since 19 Dec 2005
425 Posts
Just a Kook that's
Obsessed
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| Sat Jun 16, 07 7:43 pm |
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| Kraemer wrote: | | What were you doing that you split your helmet open? |
I was wondering the same thing  |
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kitekid
Since 15 Apr 2007
170 Posts
Stoked
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| Sat Jun 16, 07 9:51 pm |
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scarecrow =back rool handle pass
i was land boarding and decided that it would be cool to throw it a lil intvertedand well i woke up couple min later to find my helmet split but not my head if i would have not of been rideing an sle and my normal c kite the leash would have caught me instead of depowering the kite |
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EdG
Since 19 Dec 2005
425 Posts
Just a Kook that's
Obsessed
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| Sat Jun 16, 07 10:10 pm |
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| kitekid wrote: | scarecrow =back roll handle pass
i was land boarding and decided that it would be cool to throw it a lil intvertedand well i woke up couple min later to find my helmet split but not my head if i would have not of been rideing an sle and my normal c kite the leash would have caught me instead of depowering the kite |
If no water is involved, go for a snowboarding helmet or a full on motorcycle lid. S#it, that's why I'm scared to ride land board |
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jsj
Since 11 Sep 2006
83 Posts
Hood River
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| Sat Jun 16, 07 10:37 pm helmets should break instead -o- you head |
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Your #1 safety gear is your head. Protect it if you are doing something risky.
Bottom line is when your noggin hits something, you want to avoid:
1) breaking open your skull. Stiff composites (carbon or kevlar in an epoxy matrix) spread impact across a large area, reducing "herztian" or direct, concetrated forces.
2) sloshing of the brain within the skull. this results in concussion and can be hard (or very easy!) to detect. Foam liners allow for a reduced rate of deceleration, and therefore less brain sloshing. Thicker foam is better for this but increases your risk of neck injury.
I'm not a fan of Shred Ready, mostly because for a while at least they had a "carbon" helmet that was simply plastic with applique that looked like a fiber composite. Disengenous and misleading to the uneducated.
Grateful Heads kick ass. They make kayak AND motorcycle helmets. Fiber composite with HD foam inserts...
http://www.gratefulheads.com/GratefulHeads.php?loc=Watersports
Take a happy medium, get a REAL kayak helmet, and wear it if you are in high winds or in an area where collision with hard objects is likely.
jsj
ps 25 yrs surfing never worn a helmet, never will. 20 years kayaking wear a helmet every time. Kiting? 30kt + or a rocky launch. |
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tautologies
Since 24 Aug 2006
602 Posts
Oahu
Addicted
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| Sun Jun 17, 07 2:51 am Re: helmets should break instead -o- you head |
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| jsj wrote: |
I'm not a fan of Shred Ready, mostly because for a while at least they had a "carbon" helmet that was simply plastic with applique that looked like a fiber composite. Disengenous and misleading to the uneducated.
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WOW, thanks for this. I never knew, I just read another place they were good
This suck big time.
A. |
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kitekid
Since 15 Apr 2007
170 Posts
Stoked
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| Sun Jun 17, 07 6:21 am |
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| Quote: | If no water is involved, go for a snowboarding helmet or a full on motorcycle lid. S#it, that's why I'm scared to ride land board
Its not scary just dont do interverted stufff. It is fun when you go to the beach and there is not quite enough to go on the water but, youll be lit on the grond board.
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kitekid
Since 15 Apr 2007
170 Posts
Stoked
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| Sun Jun 17, 07 6:21 am |
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| Its not scary just dont do interverted stufff. It is fun when you go to the beach and there is not quite enough to go on the water but, youll be lit on the grond board. |
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rodeo clown
Since 29 Jan 2007
40 Posts
Seattle
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| Sun Jun 17, 07 6:30 am |
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I've been using a Sweet, Strutter helmet now for a few months and I really love this thing! Its lite and drains quickly, fits great and the visor is handy in sunny conditions.
Not sure that I would use this in the surf, it might bucket, but whitewater dudes built this so maybe it can handle it.
This is the real thing, manufactured by robotics in Norway using T-pex carbon fiber. Its been around for 10 years so its a proven design.
Here is a link to the web site.
http://www.sweet.no/
I think there is a rep right there in P-town too.
_________________
http://www.kitepaddlesurf.com/
http://www.bladekites.com/
http://www.oceanrodeo.com/ |
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jsj
Since 11 Sep 2006
83 Posts
Hood River
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| Sun Jun 17, 07 1:11 pm Shred Ready "Carbon Blue" |
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Just wanted to clarify my earlier comment on Shred Ready helmets:
They make both plastic and composite products.
I'm quite sure their ABS plastic helmets are as good as any plastic helmet out there (eg Gath, ProTec). The bad news is that one of the finish options on these is "Carbon Blue" which makes it *look* like a fiber reinforced helmet.
It's not.
Just know what you are buying. Shop guys may or may not know the difference.....
My $0.02
jsj |
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rodeo clown
Since 29 Jan 2007
40 Posts
Seattle
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EdG
Since 19 Dec 2005
425 Posts
Just a Kook that's
Obsessed
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| Sun Jun 17, 07 5:46 pm |
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| rodeo clown wrote: | | Hey, I just wanted to add that Sweet recomends replacing the helmet after a big impact, maybe like the one you experienced. You can spend more on a carbon helmet, and still be faced with replacement for safety reasons. |
That has been recomended for +25 years for motorcycles, both on and off road.
ED |
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