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We need a consensus on kiting during Covid-19.
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
3848 Posts
Camas
XTreme Poster

CGKA Member


PostSat May 23, 20 9:21 am    We need a consensus on kiting during Covid-19. Reply with quote

I want to thank Kate Brown and Jay Inslee for all the confusing and contradictory guidance they have put out. Clearly they saw that there was way too much friendliness and camaraderie in the Northwest and have taken advantage of a very serious crisis to rectify the situation.

I get both sides of this conversation, I do. I understand the locals point of view. I understand Metro's point of view. I gotta say though, when you have Hood River Locals--who are vocal about protecting their neighborhood--posting on here asking how to access kite spots in Multnomah County it makes every local in Hood River look like they don't actually care about Covid. Try and be consistent in your message.

This is a tough time, and we aren't getting any leadership as a kite boarding community when we need it most. We certainly aren't getting any from our elected leaders. Kate Brown refuses to define "local" and Inslee defines it as how far you can drive in a day. Neither are helpful, so if we want a community after this is all done we are going to have to do this ourselves.

We need to come to a consensus, and we need to be positive. Rather than "Portland stay away!" how about "These are the conditions we'd like to see so that we can welcome our Portland friends again." Most of us are actually just trying to do the right thing, but there are a few jack asses who just use the situation to vindicate being an asshole. There have always been the second type and always will be. Please try and remember that one or two assholes do not represent everybody. Try and see the situation through other's eyes.

Hopefully folks will post on this thread--in a respectful manner--what their ideas are. Try and stick to positive ideas. Understand that different people have different levels of fear about Covid. Covid is going to be with us for a LONG while, it's past time that we decide how we will live with Covid-19 as a kite boarding community. Covid is going to stick around for a LONG time. Let's figure out how we deal with it AND maintain our community.

I've not posted any ideas on how to handle this intentionally. I'm just trying to lay a framework for how we can work on this as friends. Try and avoid posts on Covid and it's risk level. We have no control or input on that. Let's deal with what government guidance exists and how we will apply that guidance. This is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

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jaksavage

Since 02 Dec 2009
204 Posts
hood river
Stoked



PostSat May 23, 20 1:11 pm    Thanks Nak Reply with quote

We are all trying to find our way and unfortunately the guidance from our federal officials has been contradictory. So the states have created a patchwork of rules to try and fill the void.
That being said it would be good if all of us took a deep breath and dealt with what we have.
People are moving around. Some of them are coming to HR. There are no Covid police.
If you are uncomfortable with the crowds you find at the store or in town or at the waterfront or on the trails. Go home and wait for a less crowded day.
If you have a high concern for your safety, stay home, we will be dealing with this for a long time.
In all likely hood Oregon will see increases in illness as we open up. We have very low numbers now which means most of us are still susceptible. This virus is at least 5x more deadly than the flu and 2 times easier to spread. So far there is very little that we know for sure, except it does kill people, healthy people.
There are some examples of establishments in downtown HR that tried to open and were overwhelmed by customers who refused to be controlled by the state guidance for social distancing. Some of these places have decided to close, rather than fight the crowds.
If you visit a Hood River establishment, please follow the rules for social distancing etc. You may not worry about Covid but the servers and owners and maybe the other patrons do.
Please be aware and safe as we continue with this public health emergency.

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jaksavage

Since 02 Dec 2009
204 Posts
hood river
Stoked



PostSat May 23, 20 3:44 pm     Reply with quote

If the picture loads it speaks for itself.

   thundering hoard.jpg 

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McLovin

Since 11 Sep 2017
137 Posts
Corbett
Stoked



PostSun May 24, 20 12:55 am    better angels... Reply with quote

Nak,

You raise a several great points both in this post and in your many others. This situation puts all of us somewhere 'along the horns of a dilemma' and each person's decisions will understandably fall across a spectrum representing a normal distribution. As obvious as that is - it speaks to the trouble in building consensus both within the kiting community and beyond.

I don't have a suggestion but I like your point about us all taking a moment to consider how we are treating each other - online, on the river and in life.

Most humans will fall into NIMBY thinking...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY

What we all do to manage during these times will be a close second to HOW we manage ourselves when it matters most.

Sorry I don't have any inspired wisdom - I am an optimist, I love reading all the stories both old and new and appreciate the kiting community for what it is and the shared love of the simple joy we have all found...

Mc


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lewmt

Since 04 Aug 2010
167 Posts
MT
Stoked



PostSun May 24, 20 5:01 am     Reply with quote

This doesn't specifically answer Nak's questions but....

Its Memorial Day weekend. A day to recognize those who've died for our liberty. People who've faced incredible odds against them, watched others around them die, and persevered so that individual liberty could reign over tyranny(Nazi Germany, slavery, a distant monarchy) . No - not all wars have been just or necessary & some have been dubious at best. However, some have been for the actual underpinnings of individual liberty and the self sacrifice of those who shed blood for our liberty is worthy of thought.

I'm not visiting your area now but we have millions of visitors to our area every year so the localism I've read in several threads is spectacularly self-serving and arrogant to me. I don't like everyone who visits here but most are nice & decent & just trying to take a minute in their own lives to enjoy life in their own way. Who are we? Are we really devolved this far? We sit home and wonder when our leaders will "LET US" ? Seriously? Study the hypocrisy in their edicts. Know that they are becoming increasingly intoxicated by their newfound power.

Honestly its time to tell leaders who make these edicts - that they work for us & not their own self serving interests. We can self regulate with common sense. We understand this is not a trifling sniffle to be dismissed. However, dear leaders, you need to know you don't have the authorities you have granted yourselves and there's a pretty substantial document called the Constitution which determines who works for whom. The US Constitution does supersede, in its principles, the states constitutions when it comes to individual liberty and the limitations it imposes on state and local governments.

Yes more humans will get sick and die. Harsh but its reality. People get sick and die from all kinds of communicable diseases every day. We've been enablers to a soft tyranny and left unchecked it will get worse.

So - don't bring grandma or grandpa with respiratory issues to the park to play with the kids who touch everything. Keep some distance and let sunshine, fresh air and herd immunity rule. Use common sense. Do business and live life. This will pass with time and a certain amount of spatial awareness. Most of all tell our leaders that they don't have the ultimate say.

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daveS

Since 23 Jul 2007
96 Posts

 



PostSun May 24, 20 7:12 am     Reply with quote

It seems to me we have hit a point with Covid where things aren't likely to change for a while. Yes, cases will be brought to our communities but hopefully with testing and tracing outbreaks can be limited.
For me I feel like its time to decide how my family and I will act in the next 12-18 months. Who will my child and my family interact with and how. Who will I let in my business and how will that look etc..
My point is it's time to decide how you will recreate. If you are an avid kiter/biker then I think you should do it. Including travelling at least regionally to recreate. It seems pretty easy for those of us who live in an outdoor play mecca to tell someone stuck in the city to stay home.
I hope visitors that come here(HR) will wear masks when appropriate and I plan on/and am doing the same.
I also think it is important to demonstrate appropriate social distancing. I hear lots of people complaining about groups at trailheads and parking lots and that fuels the localist sentiment.

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Mikeb

Since 22 Oct 2006
181 Posts
Troutdale and Hood River Or
Stoked



PostSun May 24, 20 8:32 am    Open Up The Event Site NOW Reply with quote

It's time to take a deep breath (6 feet apart of course) and look at the overall effect of this pandemic. We should protect other people when going IN DOORS and wear a mask and be considerate. But outdoors, this makes little sense. Open Up NOW! Open the event site and other outdoors venues. People need to get outdoors for their physical and mental health. Even the medical professionals agree that the risk of contracting COVID-19 outdoors is low.
Last edited by Mikeb on Sun May 24, 20 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Obakarama

Since 29 Jun 2019
33 Posts

 



PostSun May 24, 20 8:39 am     Reply with quote

Nak, I am all with you. Looks like you have the wisdom that our leadership is lacking. They have a talent to get to the position ( in case of Brown just an accident ) but that's where it ends. We don't need " leadership" of this kind. We, as people, we know better what to do. Treat the others with respect and treat them the way we want to be treated ourselves. The book of all wisdom says, " love thy neighbor like yourself". Sp why would I go to overcrowded places like ES could be or why would I go kiting at this point anyway ? Is what I am doing putting the other in a harmful way ? It's not what the government allows us to do or not, it's what's right.

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lewmt

Since 04 Aug 2010
167 Posts
MT
Stoked



PostSun May 24, 20 3:08 pm     Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

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Mikeb

Since 22 Oct 2006
181 Posts
Troutdale and Hood River Or
Stoked



PostSun May 24, 20 9:34 pm     Reply with quote

lewmt,
Hilarious, But really George Carlin makes a lot of sense in this U Tube stand up piece.
There’s a school of thought from other medical professionals and other countries (like Sweden) that promote protecting the most vulnerable along with the importance of developing resistance and developing ”Heard Immunity”. Otherwise A second wave of this virus could be worse than the first.

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ay

Since 11 Oct 2008
80 Posts
Hood River
 



PostMon May 25, 20 1:57 pm     Reply with quote

Lots of out of state plates this holiday weekend and seemed like was being laughed at for wearing a mask around town. If people could show good judgement then responsible government would not need to put in place restrictive rules. Thank you to those who were not here from out of town introducing potential asymptomatic infection.

It isn't about protecting yourself it is about protecting others, and ignoring local guidelines just demonstrates that you don't really care about local communities, wherever it is. The Port made a good decision to keep the ES closed this weekend but expect that will change soon enough. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the summer goes here and across the rest of the country.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1248 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostMon May 25, 20 4:21 pm     Reply with quote

the new normal - take your temperature daily and if it starts to climb to 100, stay home. Practice good hand hygiene and if you feel sick, stay home. But let’s stop restricting people from using open spaces - the data doesn’t support it.

I’m quoting a friend whom I respect.

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
538 Posts

Addicted



PostMon May 25, 20 9:33 pm     Reply with quote

Nak - Good topic.

The world is not black and white, rather many shades of grey.

I think it is important to make efforts to be safe. That includes wearing a mask where appropriate. But... currently both Washington and Oregon are doing very well comparatively.

Our leaders are opening up activities in our communities. Our health care systems are implementing/have implemented better protocols. We have new testing capabilities. We have better lines on protective equipment.

Is it all right to recreate? I think so.

Do we need to make efforts to do so safely - ABSOLUTELY.

Is it possible we will see future outbreaks in our communities. Quite likely.

If/when this happens we need to shut down non-essential activities immediately. But, for now things seem pretty good.

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oliver19

Since 25 Jun 2019
43 Posts

 



PostTue May 26, 20 1:10 am     Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:
the new normal - take your temperature daily and if it starts to climb to 100, stay home. Practice good hand hygiene and if you feel sick, stay home. But let’s stop restricting people from using open spaces - the data doesn’t support it.

I’m quoting a friend whom I respect.


Absolutely. Risks of virus transmission in open, windy spaces is negligible.

Also, be careful about interpreting virus stats. Increasing cases may just be a reflection of increased testing. One needs to look at something like percent of tests being positive.

Time to follow common sense more than unreasonable gov rules and take some control back of our lives.

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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
354 Posts

Obsessed



PostTue May 26, 20 5:59 am     Reply with quote

Quote:
Time to follow common sense more than unreasonable gov rules and take some control back of our lives


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201107/common-sense-is-neither-common-nor-sense

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bwd

Since 04 Aug 2007
383 Posts

Obsessed



PostTue May 26, 20 7:38 am     Reply with quote

But how can I eat the bugs, if I have to wear a mask?
Never mind, I don’t like bugs anyway...

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Obakarama

Since 29 Jun 2019
33 Posts

 



PostTue May 26, 20 8:39 am     Reply with quote

Those who don't speak only one language and don't rely on only American media as a source of a sole info may have noticed that in some European countries, where the payments for a healthcare don't differ between Covid and non Covuid patients in favor of Covid, would read that the latest findings are showing that nearly 60% of marked Covid fatalities were actually caused by heart failures, respiratory diseases and diabetes. As Andrew Cuomo says, " those who should die of this would die anyway." So, if you are healthy and in a good shape, you may relax a little. Respect the others, of course. But this whole thing is probably not as bad as some are saying.

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