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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4753 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped



PostWed Nov 28, 18 12:47 pm     Reply with quote

i thought we inherit all the windsurfing sites in like four years anyway Laughing


seems like a good solution - if we focus on access


does concern me that a safety boat is called out as a long standing goal (cant you just give the really old dudes a life jacket?)

self-reliance should be a guiding principle of water sports combined with looking out for one another

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
2004 Posts

Windward



PostThu Nov 29, 18 7:38 am     Reply with quote

does concern me that a safety boat is called out as a long standing goal (cant you just give the really old dudes a life jacket?)

whaaaa? Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad

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Godlike

Since 25 Sep 2008
94 Posts

 



PostThu Nov 29, 18 8:33 am     Reply with quote

Gman wrote:
i thought we inherit all the windsurfing sites in like four years anyway Laughing


seems like a good solution - if we focus on access


does concern me that a safety boat is called out as a long standing goal (cant you just give the really old dudes a life jacket?)

self-reliance should be a guiding principle of water sports combined with looking out for one another


Going to love it when some day you wake up and realize you are that old dude.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
3601 Posts
Camas
XTreme Poster

CGKA Member


PostThu Nov 29, 18 8:53 am     Reply with quote

Godlike wrote:

Going to love it when some day you wake up and realize you are that old dude.


Gman? Old?!? No. Seriously, no. Never going to happen. Red shirts may die all around him, but Capt Kirk never REALLY gets old! Smile

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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4753 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped



PostThu Nov 29, 18 12:58 pm     Reply with quote

I'm so old, i fart dust!


Do have a thirty year old life jacket that gets used on occasion, no shame

now i have seen Santa windsurfing at the hatch, which is supercool and he didnt seem to need a boat

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1281 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostThu Nov 29, 18 6:07 pm     Reply with quote

blowhard wrote:
does concern me that a safety boat is called out as a long standing goal (cant you just give the really old dudes a life jacket?)

whaaaa? Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad


Old Dudes tend to forget where they left their PDF

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Kip Wylie

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
347 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostFri Nov 30, 18 10:10 am     Reply with quote

moondog wrote:
I feel much more can be accomplished if we merge all of the different entities.


Back to the topic at hand....

The path that appears to be necessary, is not without it's risks. With a merger as minor as CGWA-CGKA, the resultant organization will likely give less consideration to it's survival, and more consideration to it's effectiveness. Survival will be apparently guaranteed by an initially larger member base. But remember, that effectiveness of that new organization will be spread between two groups who must be appeased at least as well as before the merger took place. If this level of appeasement is not kept up for one of the groups, or both, a decline in membership/volunteers will result. This would likely weaken representation (survival and effectiveness) for the new organization.

If many different groups of water users with different needs and concerns are included under one organization, a complete breakdown in survival and effectiveness will be even more likely.

My 2cents on this - What is needed is a structure that provides for the individual sports differentiation with cooperation for common goals, and more importantly - individual goals. Kayakers, windsurfers, SUP'ers, Kiters, should retain their own distinct organizations under a cooperative overseeing organization.

To put it a simpler way, the membership CGSUP logo for a SUP'er should have a large pic of an SUP with it's main logo (CGSUP) in large letters on it. Then there should be a small seal from the CGWAWA in the corner of that logo.

In practice, when a call is made for volunteers to help with a new kayak launch, there should be some non kayakers with CGKA OR CGWA logos show up to help as they would be part of the same overall organization.

This would provide for differentiation, cooperation, and again, the pursuit of individual goals. But the biggest pitfall that this avoids is the possibility of any smaller user groups not being represented proportionally with their numbers.

The greatest pitfall that this could create, would be conflicts over money. To reduce this risk, each primary group (like the CGSUP) should keep their own revenues. Support for the secondary overall group (the CGWAWA) should come from optional donations from individual members of the primary groups, not from the primary group themselves.


And I think that CGWWA rolls off the tongue way better than CGWAWA.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1073 Posts
Hood River
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PostFri Nov 30, 18 10:40 am     Reply with quote

IMO - we need an organization that focuses on river access and beach improvements.
Maybe a few swap meets and barbeques to meet and greet fellow members.

I don't want to be part of an organization to grow the sport and sponsor demo days and contests.
That should be handled by the local shops, schools, and manufacturers.
Exception - support of the local kids programs including gear donations is awesome!

IMO - it makes sense to merge Kiters and Windsurfers into one group.
The current CGWA is very well organized and funded and the interests are well aligned with local kiters. Access, access, access.

I'd like to see the focus be 100% on access to beaches and helping with the maintenance of these beaches.

I think SUP and downwind boaters have different issues and would be better served by having their own organization.

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Gman

Since 11 Feb 2006
4753 Posts
Portland
Unstrapped



PostFri Nov 30, 18 10:56 am     Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:


I'd like to see the focus be 100% on access to beaches and helping with the maintenance of these beaches.




Agreed !!!

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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
388 Posts

Obsessed



PostFri Nov 30, 18 1:22 pm     Reply with quote

Also agree including parking!

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Sella

Since 21 Apr 2007
1669 Posts
Doin' The Dalles
FLY'IN HIGH PIE GUY



PostFri Nov 30, 18 5:12 pm     Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:
IMO - we need an organization that focuses on river access and beach improvements.
Maybe a few swap meets and barbeques to meet and greet fellow members.

I don't want to be part of an organization to grow the sport and sponsor demo days and contests.
That should be handled by the local shops, schools, and manufacturers.
Exception - support of the local kids programs including gear donations is awesome!

IMO - it makes sense to merge Kiters and Windsurfers into one group.
The current CGWA is very well organized and funded and the interests are well aligned with local kiters. Access, access, access.

I'd like to see the focus be 100% on access to beaches and helping with the maintenance of these beaches.

I think SUP and downwind boaters have different issues and would be better served by having their own organization.

THIS! Thumb's Up

The grom/kid exception is gold.

Also, no need for custom stickers to highlight a particular alliance/sport mentioned earlier. I've been very "pro-kite" in the past and that is just idiotic tribalism kookery. All our DNA comes from the water. Complete transparency for all to create the best river experience possible.

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shred_da_gorge

Since 12 Nov 2008
773 Posts

Opinionated



PostSat Dec 01, 18 1:15 am     Reply with quote

Sella, you sold me. Some other posts neglect the fact that the action of a few benefit the many. There doesn't need to be differentiation; the proposal is to not make things more complex than they need to be. Yes, different launch conditions are necessary for different sports. No, rescue boats may not be the highest priority. Those are minor and malleable details. My money is going to CGWA now because the leadership is worth investing in.

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Matt V

Since 26 Oct 2014
347 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea



PostSat Dec 01, 18 9:51 am     Reply with quote

shred_da_gorge wrote:
.....Some other posts neglect the fact that the action of a few benefit the many......


That is how charity, innovation, and hard work have mostly worked throughout human history.


Quote:
The action of a many benefit the few.


That is how taxation and government have mostly worked throughout human history.



shred_da_gorge wrote:
My money is going to CGWA now because the leadership is worth investing in.


That would indicate an issue with the CGKA, if kiters see the CGWA as a viable alternative to it. If that was a commonly held belief from Gorge locals, then the CGWA is more likely to save the CGKA than vice-versa.

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Sella

Since 21 Apr 2007
1669 Posts
Doin' The Dalles
FLY'IN HIGH PIE GUY



PostSat Dec 01, 18 12:20 pm     Reply with quote

Matt V wrote:
That would indicate an issue with the CGKA, if kiters see the CGWA as a viable alternative to it. If that was a commonly held belief from Gorge locals, then the CGWA is more likely to save the CGKA than vice-versa.

It's the natural evolution to streamline and organize for all.

Windsurfing growth today isn't on par with the other sports but they are established, organized and tenured when it comes to dealing with access. We jest they are old but with age comes wisdom and I look forward to hearing what our elders have to say....so to speak.

Kiters have no organization or say locally but our numbers are booming and the data shows our backgrounds (typical of all water sport users) are well educated and financially sound.

So I don't see it as anybody is saving anybody but more so our groups strengths and weaknesses offset. That's a smart alliance to bring together and long overdue.

My previous angst against the CGKA in this thread is their conflict of interest control issues cloud their judgement for the betterment of all. What's funny is the CGWA is providing them the perfect out to fade away and save face but their political delay tactic just highlights their nonsense and today's society is tired of people who wear big hats but have no cattle and they got called out on it. I'm sure you'll see them update how they "approve and bless the merging" of our groups. Hooray! Courtesy clap...clap...clap. Ciao.

Moving foward......my annual CGWA family membership cost me $35 to join. That doesn't go very far and maybe covers 1 hour of staff time, but it's something. The true value IMO is we would actually have a voice and then can decide where to roll up our sleeves and step in to help access and safety because talk is cheap.

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shred_da_gorge

Since 12 Nov 2008
773 Posts

Opinionated



PostSat Dec 01, 18 4:13 pm     Reply with quote

Sella wrote:
I don't see it as anybody is saving anybody but more so our groups strengths and weaknesses offset.

That's the benefit I perceive from this. I'm not familiar with the politics mentioned but I do know the CGWA family/personalities and what they bring to the table, and I understand the thinking here (even the oddball humor in the proposed CG'WAWA' name). In previous years I've supported and fought alongside them for various waterfront access issues, including the park that's matured so nicely now.

There are only select accessible locations to the Columbia, for various reasons, which leads to the inevitable continued density of sports modalities. I remember (many) years ago nearly getting clotheslined by a lone kiter while windsurfing at the Marina (back when it was dredged), then watched (and participated) in the minority becoming the status quo, and more recently needing to adjust to the aggressive angles that foilers can take... and now those bloody surfskis are everywhere!

I jest, mainly, but I see the proposal as quite simply to bring everyone to the same table. Sure there'll be some infighting, just like Thanksgiving at my house, but shit gets talked through when it's in the open, and ideas exchanged.

Maybe I'm naive.

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cgka

Since 18 Jul 2006
274 Posts

Obsessed



PostSat Dec 01, 18 7:50 pm     Reply with quote

Wow Ken...........

Just so you know, we've been attempting to extend an olive branch out to the CGWA for almost 10 yrs now. When we first broached the discussions, we were given a very firm rejection and some of the CGKA board were personally lambasted for attempting those efforts.
Things have changed since then, most recently, this past year, with members of the CGWA, more specifically, Bart as the Exec Dir engaging in very forward thinking ideas with Pepi and Mike on how common goals and access needs are the more important essentials for all water users.

As for the 'dating' part, this was not a CGKA specific need, it was a need for both organizations. The CGWA had to ensure that it could have the support of it's membership to make a very major change in its mission goals, and the CGKA had to have some time to figure out how to work through Fed and State non-profit paperwork issues, as well as financial and tax changes.
Add to that, we all have day jobs and families, so again, these are volunteer organizations doing their best to make the right long term decisions.

Geeze...would think you'd appreciate that your local kiting representatives would want to date a little bit before we jumped in the sack together, especially when our first dating advances were roughly rebuffed.
Give us credit for keeping on top of this after 10 years of being repeatedly rejected.

We know you mean well, but these are positive changes being made and if you have a beef with any of the CGKA board, please confront us personally, either via Pepi, Adam, John, or Mike, instead of going out of bounds on the forum.

Thank you Matt V for some insightful comments and perspective on the bigger picture viewpoints.

We very much look forward to making this happen. Right now we are mainly waiting to hear back from the CGWA BOD after the end of the year, and then see what plans we need to make to move forward for 2019 legally, federally and financially.

Your local CGKA BOD



Sella wrote:
Matt V wrote:
That would indicate an issue with the CGKA, if kiters see the CGWA as a viable alternative to it. If that was a commonly held belief from Gorge locals, then the CGWA is more likely to save the CGKA than vice-versa.

It's the natural evolution to streamline and organize for all.

Windsurfing growth today isn't on par with the other sports but they are established, organized and tenured when it comes to dealing with access. We jest they are old but with age comes wisdom and I look forward to hearing what our elders have to say....so to speak.

Kiters have no organization or say locally but our numbers are booming and the data shows our backgrounds (typical of all water sport users) are well educated and financially sound.

So I don't see it as anybody is saving anybody but more so our groups strengths and weaknesses offset. That's a smart alliance to bring together and long overdue.

My previous angst against the CGKA in this thread is their conflict of interest control issues cloud their judgement for the betterment of all. What's funny is the CGWA is providing them the perfect out to fade away and save face but their political delay tactic just highlights their nonsense and today's society is tired of people who wear big hats but have no cattle and they got called out on it. I'm sure you'll see them update how they "approve and bless the merging" of our groups. Hooray! Courtesy clap...clap...clap. Ciao.

Moving foward......my annual CGWA family membership cost me $35 to join. That doesn't go very far and maybe covers 1 hour of staff time, but it's something. The true value IMO is we would actually have a voice and then can decide where to roll up our sleeves and step in to help access and safety because talk is cheap.

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daveS

Since 23 Jul 2007
77 Posts

 



PostSun Dec 02, 18 8:09 am     Reply with quote

This seems like a no brainer to me. All users will likely benefit in the long term. I wonder if the people who will need convincing are the current CGWA members.....we will see.

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