What makes a kite good for unhooking/handle passing?

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

being part of the 99.9% of riders who can't ride unhooked well but are still trying to join that elite class of 0.01% (while also taking it easy from a shoulder injury that had nothing to do with kiting.)... I'd say the info on a lot of flat kites is out of date. A few of the 07's are pulley bar ready. A bridle and a flatter shape just means you get more power for an equal amount of fabric. Big wide tips on C kites only provide power when your turning the kite anyway, something your not supposed to be doing if your simulating a boat's pull.

A lot of the flat kites have traded instant full depower for smooth depower that allows a larger sheeting sweet spot. I actually got overpowered on my kites a few times yesterday, sheeting out did not stop me. It reminded me of my old C kites. Some people will hate this and stick to kites that have instant depower, others will take it as a gentle nudge from the kite designer that board edging skills are still needed.

I will stick with my original assement that C kites still work better for unhooked, a lot of that based on the number of pros still sticking with them. But we are in year 2 of a totally new design of kite.... wait awhile.

Ruben Lenten is the only guy I see pulling moves that look like they require a C kite anyway...

forrest · Mon Apr 30, 07 3:49 pm

@Gabe: I used to wakeboard, and I sucked. Never got a chance to do anything more than clear a wake. I got into kiting cause I couldn't afford a boat. I'm still very drawn to wake style. I still want to be able to do some wake style tricks, flat 360s look sweet to me... I'm not really interested in PKRA style handle passing as a way to make every single trick look harder. Right now it's just surface handle passes on my skimboard. Think Andre Phillip, he's my hero!

@Hein: There is no such thing as a stupid question. Smile

@mack: I'm not afraid of gusts, and I know how to control my speed with the board. When I mentioned range, I was mostly talking about range of use, so I don't have to own 3-4 kites... Which was my last experience with C kites (2002 8m, 2002 10m, 2004 12m, 2005 16m).

You guys, please keep in mind, I'm a total newbie who happen to learn a few new tricks last year, which was my first full season. I just want to progress and learning new skills is what I find fun about kiting. Right now I just want a surface handle pass and want to make sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot trying it on a Waroo. Is that so much to ask for? Smile

(On a side note, I realize part of my failure is probably the fact that I'm trying it on a skimboard...)

PS: it's late over here in England 1AM, sorry if I sound grumpy, windy all day long but to much work... Hopefully I get to kite this weekend in Wales if it's windy.

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

This looks mighty legit to me. Maybe Tekko and Joby can weigh in on this? Couple of hardcore wakestyle riders currently on SLE kites.

Hein · Since 08 Mar 2005 1314 Posts Possessed

No offense but they are sponsored.
What do you think they'll say? Joby
can make any reasonable kite look
good. The pop he gets is unreal.

Bridals are not good for unhooking.
Don't you want to try landing blind
or doing an HP. You'll be dropping
that kite and those bridals will be
a tangled mess and you'll be swimming.
I've seen it numerous times.

Want to unhook?
How many pull ups can you do?
Do you have a beer gut?

Forrest, I did not say you had
a stupid question. Just that you'll
not find the answer on the forums.

..

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1874 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

Okay...I think it is time to post on this...

I am just starting to "really" ride unhooked just recently and have been trying it on my 06 waroos and 05 fuels..

When riding the waroos, I would make sure to depower my kite just a little for the conditions, only to feel more comfortable....When doing this, yeah the kite did flutter a little, but to keep from sinking, I would just keep the kite low and then, when over-powered I would just dump the wind by going downwind....which I think is the easiest thing to do when overpowered while unhooked....keep in mind I was doing this at rooster or lyle in the shallows and in SPI on the mainland in the shallows....so I would have plenty of room to go downwind,....then hook back in and cruise back to where you started.

With the Fuels, I def could feel the kite holds it shape better when unhooked...but I still felt like I had to have it trimmed right in order to have it feel like a boat-pull....no flutter, constant pull..

Forrest-I too came from a wakeboard background and yes, try the flat 3.....I don't have the pop down yet, but I try and pop, keep the kite in place and rotate 180 whichever way you want to spin and grab, hold-it, and revert back to the way you took-off...hopefullly once you(and I) get comfy doing this, you can eventually complete the rotation the full 360.. Very Happy

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

I've seen as many kites 5th line wrapped as I've seen with wrapped bridles, maybe more...

anyway I don't know what I am defending, I said C kites are good for unhooked riding. But that's only 20% of kiting in my opnion. If you want to say you have to do everything unhooked well that's just retarded. There is some stuff you just can't hang on for. That's why Ruben's new kiteloop/passes he starts out hooked in boosts/loops, then unhooks and passes. He lets the harness do the work when he really needs it. The guy has titanium joints no doubt but some stuff is just impossible.

Its about fun, right? If it was a contest about who was the most hardcore the guy with the front lines clipped off to his balls would win every time but that guy would not be having fun, trust me.

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1874 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

Agreed.....easily agreed. Mr. Green

shit, and I have a beer gut.. didnt' think of that.

Hein · Since 08 Mar 2005 1314 Posts Possessed

fifth lines suck too.
Small kite, 4 lines.
no sheeting
(OK minimal sheeting < 2")
Rockin!

And guess what?
when you do hook in
NO BAR PRESSURE

You're right, Phillip
it is about having fun
and right now I'm having
fun typing into your Forum.

But Forrest asked and
so here we go.

Page 2 is coming up.

Forrest,
got your answer yet?

I think I'm getting confused.

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

one thing I hadn't added yet is the 06 waroo will loop even if you put your hand in the middle of the bar. Brett found that out yetserday the hard way.

some other advice from somebody who has only attempted one pass... work on the basic unhooked stuff first, raleys, backrolls, sbends. You could take years just getting those dialed in and legit before you start risking shoulder injuries (I know because I am still working on it.) I still think a fully legit sbend or raley look way cooler than most handle passes.

doing a raley: easy... doing it legit joby style: hard.

my raleys post surgery have been weak... Sad

Mark · Mon Apr 30, 07 4:41 pm

I agree. The 06 waroo is a fast mother. The 07 Boxer feels more like a "C kite". It will pull hard in a 1-1 bar setup so much that you have to use your board skills because you cant depower the kite like the waroo.
Kind of the best of both worlds.

I am just starting to play with unhooked. Fun but not the style of riding I would do all the time.

Hein · Since 08 Mar 2005 1314 Posts Possessed

I'll admit that some sheeting is nice
when you're lit. But it allows you
to take a kite too large that's going
pull your arms off when you unhook.
So what you end up doing is trying
to unhook in the lulls. Wrong! you
need to unhook in the gusts, bear
off, load up and pop with all your might.
Grunting helps.

Riding fixed will teach you the correct
posture and techniques for managing
power unhooked. You'll need to use a
smaller kite or you're going to get spanked.
Run it with lots of rear line tension and
you'll learn to generate all the power you
need. If your kite flutters when you turn it
then that's bad.

You should not be able to tell when a
rider unhooks. Your riding stance should
stay about the same. If you need to
reach up and depower with trim then
you've already lost.

chanson · Since 31 Jan 2006 1874 Posts WISCONSIN Chimey

Hein · Since 08 Mar 2005 1314 Posts Possessed

From your kiteforum thread:

kitekid · Since 15 Apr 2007 170 Posts Stoked

you know how a pully bar works well take the bar and conect the rope to a the pully so then the bar has movement when you try to pass it

Hein · Since 08 Mar 2005 1314 Posts Possessed

good idea. I set up an old 4-line bar and ran
bungies on the outside to acheive the same
feel.

But I can only do a surface pass - on occasion.
I think my biggest mental hurdle is to let go when
things go badly. I tend to hang on to the bar at
all costs and I don't want to end up like Phil (even
though I could never tell he had a weak flipper
from his riding.

)

A flat 3 off some little wavelet is my goal.
just got to COMMIT!

kitekid · Since 15 Apr 2007 170 Posts Stoked

i ride a 55cm bar with all my kites from my 8 to a 16 when you ride a big bar the kite pivots and doesent take as much power. the other thing that has really helped is kiteloops whe you learn to do kite loops it is not as scary when your kite goes into a loops right now im trying kiteloop handle passes on the ground board it is pretty crazy.

mack · Since 08 Aug 2006 29 Posts Hood River, OR

they havent made a magic kite that can do it all yet, as PKH says we are in year 2 of a new kite shape, give it some time. right now im sure bridled kites provide a great wind range, but judging by the replies to this thread they are very difficult to dial in for unhooked riding. so if you want to ride unhooked, a solid c shape would suit your demands better. keep the waroo for those "gusty" days out east, and unhook with an 06 torch. or ask clinton bolton of Best kites, as he is apparently ripping on his fleet of unhooked waroos on the best odyesse somewhere in the carribbean...