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Lyle sting
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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stevegriffith22

Since 14 May 2006
384 Posts

Obsessed



PostFri Jul 14, 17 6:47 pm     Reply with quote

Matt V wrote:
Ho-Toe wrote:
Matt V wrote:
I will try to get a life, if you just would allow us to say that your statement was misinterpreted and not actually a call for the BNSF to be sued by a third party. Again, your help would be extremely appreciated in this ongoing matter.


Who is "us"?

Do you have multiple personality disorder? You're a bit wobbly in your orbit, and you're morphing into the new Bulae99.

Question


“Us” is referring to when, some years from now, “we” or another group of kiters, are making a presentation for safe/legal access to this area or even another area. After a lengthy presentation detailing all of the issues and our proposed solutions, we give the floor over to debate on the proposal. With state and local officials won over, the BNSF will likely grill us on the kiting community’s (those who will utilize this access) attitude toward the project, and specifically “our” view of the railroads right to private property. We say that just like windsurfers at Doug’s Beach, kiters self police, respect other users in the area, and have the utmost respect for the right of the railroad to operate unimpeded by our presence.

Thinking we have a good leg to stand on, the BNSF representative then pulls out printouts of banter on THIS public forum detailing a call for the BNSF to be sued into submission and forced to allow access to all of their property deemed valuable as an outdoor resource. With a few others posting agreement with this idea, we hit a brick wall with the needed BNSF cooperation, who is the last and most important player in negotiations. Even the politicians find it hard to take a stance against private property rights as most of their regularly voting constituents own private property.

This means game over for us. Years of legal research, mapping, estimates, paid impact studies, and volunteer hours – all down the tubes because the BNSF can cite a publicly posted attitude and suggestion confirmed by more than one user that the BNSF deserves no respect with regards to their private property rights.

“We” has included “me and other active kiters” on many local issues and even issues at some of my destination kiteboarding venues. I have had, or participated in, many successes I am proud of. “We” will not include me on this issue if failure is made inevitable by those who have no problem with making the task impossible. In volunteering my time, I NEED to pick my battles. This battle is for a good cause, and is for some responsible users. But some in the community are making negotiations on this issue "a battle that cannot be won".

My suggestion is that if you care for this kiteboarding location, try to help – not hurt, those who are WORKING for this access and other locations. Fighting the other players in the mix is hard enough. But fighting your own fellow kiters????


Also well said sir!

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lldkr

Since 01 Jun 2012
34 Posts

 



PostSat Jul 15, 17 10:39 am     Reply with quote

zipperline wrote:
It's all pretty simple straight forward and obvious that YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO KITE AT LYLE.........

SO STOP KITING THERE.. I've lived here since 91 and the CGWA has done a ton to keep access alive for windsurfing. Until people put together a solid kite association nothing will ever happen to give us more access to the river..

I hope everyone gets fined every time you go to LYLE..

It is also probably one of the worst stretches
of river in the gorge for wind and water quality...

It's all the newbies moving here plus tourists breaking the rules.. Not just at Lyle.

If you want to learn how to kite Take a lesson.. Go to Floras lake or Hatteras,South Padre etc..

Better yet move there instead of here..

Rant Over


Pulling this quote because it's representative of a lot of attitudes, not calling you out in particular...

I don't know if its actually one of the worst stretches for wind/water quality but i do know that it's good enough and it's a great spot for beginners. We need somewhere in close proximity to ease the congestion of beginning kiters at the event site.

I don't think it's fair to tell people they have to drive 6 hours or get on a plane to take kiting lessons. I'm glad you're in the club but one cool thing about kiting is that entry to the club doesn't have to cost you $5000 and when you're in the club your membership is free.

Easy for you to say "no one is allowed to kite at lyle" if you have no interest in going there. But take the perspective of someone who is confused why they can't access public land for harmless recreation. I'm going to question why "no one is allowed," and I think that's what were doing here. Some more diplomatically than others....

I think there's two reasons people could say youre not allowed to kite at lyle: the gentlemens agreement with the fishing community to stay out of the mouth and go easy on the fishies, AND BNSFs ownership of the only tract of land that provides access to the spot. The first one is easy if we aren't dicks. The second one is a can of worms, as we've seen here.

I don't know why you and other people are just okay with saying "youre not allowed to enjoy a public place." If you want to take the position that people aren't considerate enough to honor the gentlemens agreement so we should just stay out, fine. But if youre taking the position that we should let a for-profit company get away with restricting access to a public place because it's easier on their bottom line, then I'd say you should either start challenging the status quo, or get out of the way of people that will

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stevegriffith22

Since 14 May 2006
384 Posts

Obsessed



PostSat Jul 15, 17 1:23 pm     Reply with quote

Just curious since I've been gone a while: Does the county or town of Lyle have any interest in helping with access?

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
283 Posts

Obsessed

CGKA Member


PostSat Jul 15, 17 7:39 pm     Reply with quote

stevegriffith22 wrote:
Just curious since I've been gone a while: Does the county or town of Lyle have any interest in helping with access?


Klickitat County Commissioner David Sauter set up a town hall (which many kiters partook in) regarding potential access to the Lyle sandbar. It should be noted that from their (Klickitat County's) perspective, kiting is just one of the many recreational activities they would like to improve access for. It was my understanding that they would like to see access to this location improved/developed for fishing, supping, kayaking, windsurfing, kitesurfing, families hanging out on the beach etc. etc.

At this town meeting a few concerns were identified:

1) A local Native American voiced concerns that the quality of fishing up the Klickitat River has diminished recently. He expressed concerns that kitesurfing in the rivermouth very likely impacts salmon runs up the Klickitat river.

2) Challenges with safely crossing the Railroad.

3) WSDOT / Highway 14 challenges. I don't remember all the details on this however I believe Commissioner Sauter had ideas on addressing this challenge.

4) Funding - Projects like this take big bucks - Once again Commissioner Sauter has access to potential funding sources that he may be able to persuade to consider investing towards Lyle recreational beach access.

-----------

This being said... Lyle is one of those few little gems in the Columbia Gorge that is an excellent place for beginners to hone their skills in.

Even if you don't kite at Lyle you have to at minimum appreciate that some day you might want to take a friend, spouse or sibling there for a safe environment to hone in their kitesurfing skills. Worst case scenario is that beginners will be less likely to show up at your favorite spot if they have a better alternative at Lyle...

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mowing the river like Jack Nicklaus was comin to town.

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voy-tech

Since 08 Apr 2014
246 Posts
SE Portland
Stoked

CGKA Member


PostMon Jul 17, 17 12:17 pm     Reply with quote

One question to the nwkite community.
I believe we can divide Lyle area to three sections, there is the "OK to kite" area west of the sandbar, "Do not kite" area in the mouth of Klickitat, but what about the area at the tip of the sandbar "grey area" (highlighted in yellow in the attached picture)? When the water is high enough this is also pretty nice and flat (although shallow) is it ok to ride there?



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moondog

Since 15 Aug 2007
364 Posts
white salmon
Obsessed

CGKA Member


PostMon Jul 17, 17 12:52 pm     Reply with quote

I usually see lots of fishing boats in the grey area in the fall. I recommend sticking to the West side only if we want to make lifelong friends in the fishing community.
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moondog

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
283 Posts

Obsessed

CGKA Member


PostMon Jul 17, 17 1:02 pm     Reply with quote

voy-tech wrote:
One question to the nwkite community.
I believe we can divide Lyle area to three sections, there is the "OK to kite" area west of the sandbar, "Do not kite" area in the mouth of Klickitat, but what about the area at the tip of the sandbar "grey area" (highlighted in yellow in the attached picture)? When the water is high enough this is also pretty nice and flat (although shallow) is it ok to ride there?



I feel it is important to point out that there are no "official" rules for kiting at Lyle (other than the fact that it is illegal to cross the RR tracks). We are at the beginning stages of a negotiation between many parties.

We know that a representative from one of those parties (the Yakima Nation) expressed concerns about kiters kiting in the mouth of the Klickitat river.

This being said... As a community I feel it is important to show that we are an honorable group and will adhere to any final rules that are eventually defined.

To some these rules may seem unfair. Rules often are. They are usually defined in attempt to help the majority... Which may not always be favorable to the minority.

However, if as a community we are unable to reflect that we are honorable and able to follow agreed upon rules we may find that we are left out of the discussions. This could lead to new rules which completely restrict any form of kiteboarding at Lyle (or elsewhere).

I am not suggesting that people should not be allowed to present their opinions - even if they differ from the majority. Rather that we all agree that when the rules are finalized we will adhere to them.

Any online representation from kiters reflecting their intentions not to follow the rules can only lead to further restrictions.

Along that same line however, now that we know there are concerns regarding kiting in the mouth of the Klickitat river, it does not reflect well upon us as a community when some in our community continue to kite there.

It may not be an official rule, but it does show a lack of concern about the livelihood and customs of others.

Perhaps erroring on the side of caution is an appropriate response to the question asked until we hear otherwise...

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voy-tech

Since 08 Apr 2014
246 Posts
SE Portland
Stoked

CGKA Member


PostMon Jul 17, 17 1:56 pm     Reply with quote

Good points - noted!
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