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Lyle sting
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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moondog

Since 15 Aug 2007
697 Posts
white salmon
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PostThu Jul 06, 17 10:51 am     Reply with quote

I'm working with David Sauter. He is the county commissioner for Klickitat County. We are trying to get an approval for an underpass for the RR tracks. There is already one for the highway. Many, many hoops to jump through. The Yakima Nation is resisting the project because kiters are still kiting at the mouth of the Klickitat River and disturbing the salmon fishing. The Lyle sandbar is considered National Forest(funny) which is open to the public. We have 5 or 6 agencies that need to approve access under the tracks next to the Klickitat River. It will be a long frustrating slog but possible. David lives in Lyle, so he really wants this to happen , pump some money into the sleepy Lyle community. Stayed tuned.
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pdxadventures

Since 07 Jul 2017
2 Posts

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PostFri Jul 07, 17 1:41 pm     Reply with quote

Wanted to give everyone the heads up- I got a ticket there yesterday even though I followed the advice in this post. I guess they really do mean it is illegal to kite in lyle when they say it is illegal to kite in Lyle. Who knew... Guess I'll have to find another spot in the Gorge to kite. Been going there from PDX since I started kiting last year. Lame

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Sasquatch

Since 09 Mar 2005
2053 Posts
PNW
Bigfoot



PostFri Jul 07, 17 2:32 pm     Reply with quote

pdxadventures wrote:
Wanted to give everyone the heads up- I got a ticket there yesterday even though I followed the advice in this post. I guess they really do mean it is illegal to kite in lyle when they say it is illegal to kite in Lyle. Who knew... Guess I'll have to find another spot in the Gorge to kite. Been going there from PDX since I started kiting last year. Lame


Who issued the ticket to you and for how much?

I bet one could launch from the Oregon side of the river (Rowena) and kite "fight club" and not get a ticket.

Last edited by Sasquatch on Sat Jul 08, 17 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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Justsmile

Since 20 Jul 2009
1523 Posts
Not Portland
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PostFri Jul 07, 17 7:47 pm     Reply with quote

As soon as the water drops alittle bit more go over to the boat ramp side and bring some type of inflateable and paddle over to the sandbar. We had permission to do this from the police in the area years ago.

Still curious is bnsf wrote the ticket. ? Did you cross the tracks or under the bridge etc. let us know !!

Maybe the most convenient is not the best way to get on the water!!

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FreerideWhiteSalmon

Since 17 May 2012
64 Posts

 

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PostSat Jul 08, 17 8:27 am     Reply with quote

pdxadventures wrote:
Wanted to give everyone the heads up- I got a ticket there yesterday even though I followed the advice in this post. I guess they really do mean it is illegal to kite in lyle when they say it is illegal to kite in Lyle. Who knew... Guess I'll have to find another spot in the Gorge to kite. Been going there from PDX since I started kiting last year. Lame


That sucks. Was it BNSF? And they caught you at the crossing under the bridge?

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fisherman

Since 06 Aug 2007
113 Posts

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PostSat Jul 08, 17 4:40 pm    An idea. Reply with quote

This idea came from a movie. Born in east LA. There should be something like 300 kiters going there one day and . More than all the members of Yakima Nation.But maybe they would call National Guard to catch all of them. This whole problem is simply stupid. More limitations and regulations for a common man. Grown up man is unable to cross a railroad track. Something as simple as eating soup with a spoon. Hey there is an opportunity to employ another high school drop out. He can guard a 10 foot stretch of a track in Lyle, WA. He could also just stand there and warn people from stepping in the front of suddenly passing train. It doesn't matter you can see and hear it from a mile away. You need to be told. The fact you drove your car all the way from PDX is just a lucky coincidence. All this is about is complicating our lives in any possible way. One day everything will be prohibited.

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
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PostSat Jul 08, 17 6:53 pm    Re: An idea. Reply with quote

fisherman wrote:
One day everything will be prohibited.


In my opinion this is a viable concern.

I think it's important to listen to all the concerned parties and understand what their concerns are.

BNSF - Just wants to transport goods without the risk of hitting someone.

Fishermen - Just want to fish for either recreation or their livelihood.

I don't believe anyone wants to purposely hurt the kiting community, rather we are performing activities that they feel are affecting them adversely.

This being said... I think Commissioner David Sauter was on a good path towards finding some middle ground for all.

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pdxadventures

Since 07 Jul 2017
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PostSat Jul 08, 17 7:20 pm     Reply with quote

Sorry for the delayed response - BNSF officer, $300. Walked under which found out is still their property and the charge is criminal trespassing. Could have been thrown in jail apparently but the guy was nice about it. They own the tracks, underneath and the airspace above. Someone got killed there within the last few years as well as somewhere else in the Gorge recently on their property. Person that got killed there stepped out of the way and thought they were clear but some bars that stuck out on the front car hit them anyway. To them it's definitely a safety/liability issue for anyone on property they own. They are aware that this is becoming a more popular spot with no regard for the trespassing issue which is why they are doing the sting now.

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fisherman

Since 06 Aug 2007
113 Posts

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PostSat Jul 08, 17 8:02 pm    $ 300 Wow ! Reply with quote

Man that is a good money maker for BNSF especially when they get our tax money for their inefficiency. Yeah, they take subsidies from us and that is when they need us and after that basically screw you little stupid tax payer. I wonder if there is a chance to go fight the fine. And tell them all this. Yeah, somebody got killed there several years ago. Somebody got killed on all highways and they don't close them from public! What a stupid excuse. That can come out of a mouth of an uneducated man in an uniform only. Maybe there should be an election to see how many people are bothered by just a few people using a water surface and wind occasionally. Only then we would find out this whole thing is bogus. What they should do first place is to maintain their tracks so their oil trains don't derail in Mosier and don't pollute the river. That's what they should do instead of chasing couple of kiteboarders.

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user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
390 Posts
Portland
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PostSat Jul 08, 17 8:23 pm     Reply with quote

I'm usually a "follow the rules" kind of guy but I totally agree with ya Fisherman. That's some serious BS that the public is unable to access a popular public beach because of the power of the railroad. I understand the need for commerce, transportation of goods etc. But frankly if it's such an important and profitable business the railroad should step up and provide a safe pedestrian crossing rather than running useless "stings" and making criminals of people that just want to go to the beach.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1634 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostSun Jul 09, 17 10:47 am    Re: An idea. Reply with quote

fisherman wrote:
This whole problem is simply stupid. More limitations and regulations for a common man. Grown up man is unable to cross a railroad track. Something as simple as eating soup with a spoon.


I agree with your position re: more rules, rules, rules... and feel modern life is increasingly trapping us.
But like most things it is that one fool in a thousand who is f*cking us all.
Example: So a guy was killed at this crossing recently when he "stepped back to allow the train to pass". Huh? When a 6'000000 ton piece of steel is approaching, do you "step back a few paces"? Or do you run like hell to outside of the right-of-way?
Whenever I am anywhere near any track anywhere, with or without the presence of a train, I always cross a a fast pace or sprint from the signage to the signage.

I see a similar example at SS where I observe kiters changing out of wetsuits, tweaking gear, bs'ing while INSIDE the guardrail. After 30+ years of road-work with WSDOT, I know to always stay on the back side of any guardrail unless absolutely necessary.

Maybe it's just one more example of natural selection.

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Kip Wylie

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skideeppow

Since 26 Aug 2011
518 Posts

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PostSun Jul 09, 17 2:01 pm     Reply with quote

So you think they are going to be handing out tickets on a regular basis, or was this a one off deal?

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Singlemalt

Since 21 Jun 2015
460 Posts
White Salmon
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PostSun Jul 09, 17 8:16 pm     Reply with quote

BNSF is one of those big money corporations. They had a fatality. They don't like fatalities.

Memos are flying. Reviews are being written. Investigations, drug screens, mountains of paper work, lawyers. Safety programs are getting turned up to ten.

The unfortunate crew of that train is probably suspended, screened, lawyered up and doing mandatory counseling. While they wait to see if they are going to lose their jobs. And they killed someone.

If your job was to prevent these kind of fatalities, how would you do it? You'd be all over the enforcement guys. You'd want a bigger budget for more signage, fences, and enforcement. You'd hand out tickets and maybe throw a few offenders in jail. You'd be on local law enforcement to do the same.

Stay off the tracks. The railroads rule out here, and they will prove it. They are going to be hot and heavy for a while.

Yeah, I know, we would really like it to be otherwise, but it's not.

Me, I'd plead "no contest" send in my bail money and a note of apology. Maybe the court will kick some cash back. Sorry for your bad luck. The issue has always been that there is no legal way to cross the tracks to get down to the Lyle sandbar. No matter what your local kite forum says. Embarassed Embarassed

I'd hate to see this spread to other gorge launch sites ( I don't even want to mention the sites) that have very similar issues. So let's not push our luck. Don't make them prove it.

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user124

Since 02 Aug 2012
390 Posts
Portland
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PostSun Jul 09, 17 11:12 pm     Reply with quote

Singlemalt wrote:


If your job was to prevent these kind of fatalities, how would you do it?


Clearly the BNSF is more about covering asses than finding solutions and preventing fatalities. An enforcement sting will accomplish very little. They can't post someone at the crossing 24/7 and they can't ticket everyone. So I assume they are relying on some kind of word of mouth deterrence. Those that would be deterred are likely to be the more careful people anyway who would not hang around a train track when moving trains are nearby. Unfortunately it's the lowest common denominator they need to worry about. Not to mention that the people crossing the track are simply trying to get to a public beach, not engaging in some kind of pre-meditated criminal act.

If it was my job to prevent fatalities, I would monitor locations where large numbers of illegal track crossing occur, and then provide a safe pedestrian crossing at that site. It's not that hard. Just like for roads, make safe crosswalks instead of relying on jaywalking tickets as a deterrent. Maybe what the BNSF needs is a good lawsuit from the family of one of the fatalities to address the willful ignorance on the part of the BNSF regarding this ongoing issue.

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wannabekiter

Since 14 May 2015
269 Posts
Hood river
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PostMon Jul 10, 17 5:54 am    lyle Reply with quote

So it seems for some people the best thing is buy a jet ski or zodiac and come by water. Using the lyle boat launch seems logical but I am not sure who ramp it really is. Or launch at Rowena and come down the river.
We go to lyle for my girl friend so if we get caught it will be expensive.
As soon as she graduates to the event site we will never go back to lyle. But in the mean time I am look for a jet ski. The rail road sucks...

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1634 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostMon Jul 10, 17 6:29 am    Re: lyle Reply with quote

wannabekiter wrote:
But in the mean time I am look for a jet ski.


Potential for another Gorge cottage industry. Anyone with a jetski could offer up at $5 a pop?

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Kip Wylie

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
663 Posts

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PostMon Jul 10, 17 7:18 am    Re: lyle Reply with quote

wylieflyote wrote:

Potential for another Gorge cottage industry. Anyone with a jetski could offer up at $5 a pop?


Great idea Kip. This would be a great way for a local instructor to increase the visibility of their business.

Develop a schedule/method of pickup location(s) at $5 per ride.

Most of the riders at this location are "short timers". They will eventually evolve to other locations as they progress. They would probably be willing to temporarily pay an additional transportation fee as they are learning.

My guess is that the marketing value to the business would outweigh the direct value from the rides.

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