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kwalshpc
Since 24 Oct 2014
142 Posts
Stoked
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Sun Dec 18, 16 8:45 am Snowkite Set up, Launching and Landing Tips needed |
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Does anyone have some advice about the best process for setting up, launching and landing for snowkiting?
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Matt V
Since 26 Oct 2014
462 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea
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Sun Dec 18, 16 12:19 pm |
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If the snow is hard, but not jagged, a anchored launch with the kite off to the side is nice. But you need a good anchor. Ice climbing anchors work well for frozen lakes, fence posts are great out on terrain. Sometimes even a boulder will provide an easy anchor.
But honestly, most tubies go up just by doing a regular relaunch off the side of the window where the kite slides to the back of the window enough for it to roll over and point into the wind. No anchor needed. Just some snow on the leading edge is all you need, then walk slightly upwind while pulling in the outside (furthest away) line to get wind under the canopy. Be carefull of this launch in high winds. More distance from obstacles is required for this launch in high winds.
Foils are a whole different animal. They have also evolved quite a bit with respect to the relaunch/flag systems/safetys.
Are you talking about foils or tubies?
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Wind Slither
Since 04 Mar 2005
2570 Posts
The 503
METAL
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Sun Dec 18, 16 12:49 pm |
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Having your light wind launch down comes in handy...at least it has on my trips to ID and UT. Get directly up wind of the kite with it's nose down. Yank hard on both back lines so the kite rises up backward, then steer it up quick. AKA the Fly Dunes Sauvie launch...
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Pepi
Since 16 Jun 2006
1831 Posts
Pure Stoke Sports
Shop Owner
CGKA Member
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Sun Dec 18, 16 1:04 pm |
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There are many variables as the others have mentioned in regards to where you are launching and what the terrain is like (ie - in the wind, in shadow, hillside, bushes, trees, etc,,,)
Treat every launch like it counts and with the variable that everything that can go wrong will go wrong.
Self launches are easier and quicker that water launches. That being, accidents can happen quicker as well.
I always put my skis on first before launching, as if there is too much wind or pull in the kite, it becomes very difficult to put the 2nd ski on. But, this is only my personal experience (had a wild single ski ride onetime
I'm still learning new things every time I go, but things that I never leave without:
- Helmet
- Adjustable ski poles - not only for hiking, but for snow anchors for launching
- Extra kite leash - just because
- 10-15' 6mm rope with carabiners on each end - for anchoring kite, gear or for wrapping around a rock or tree for self launch anchor.
- All my backcountry gear - Water, food, first aid kit, spaceblanket, safety line/webbing, Avvy tranceiver, shovel and probe.
_________________ Pure Stoke Sports
Hood River, OR
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hood-River-OR/2nd-Wind-Sports/35891485558?ref=mf
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kwalshpc
Since 24 Oct 2014
142 Posts
Stoked
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Mon Dec 19, 16 10:54 am Tubies |
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I was referring to working with tube kites - thanks for the help
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Johnb
Since 02 Aug 2010
494 Posts
Obsessed
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Mon Dec 19, 16 10:58 am |
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If would be good to explain your experience level with snow kiting or what difficulty you are having.
My 2 cents...
When it's super light I flip the kite on its back and hot launch by yanking the center lines.
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jeffwestco
Since 21 Jan 2014
23 Posts
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Mon Dec 19, 16 12:54 pm |
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All good tips. Here is what I'd add - especially for tubes (which is what I use).
If the snow is deep I use a pair of Hok skis to easily navigate to/from the kite and car (if more then a few feet) and to run lines (snowshoes work too but I LOVE the hoks...no sharp edges of any kind).
I also take a small piece of plywood with me...I'll use the plywood to scoop a bit of snow to hold the kite down (if windy).
The plywood then makes a great platform on which to set and use the pump. (otherwise the pump just gets pushed deep...so annoying
plywood also makes it easy to then step into my ski boots. Depending on the wind I'll either hot launch or just use the tip from above (pull a steering line and just let the kite drag to the edge and do a relaunch)
my plywood piece is small enough to fit in my kite bag...if I want to take everything with me I can but I'll usually just leave a small base camp of gear nearby in case I want to change kites anyway.
Sorry for the book but this works really well for me at least.
Jeff
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kwalshpc
Since 24 Oct 2014
142 Posts
Stoked
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Tue Dec 20, 16 8:04 am |
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Thanks for the tips and info.
As to my experience: I have a lot of water time, and some snow, though you can see I did not have the launching/landing down.
On landing - do you just flag the kite?
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craz z
Since 01 Dec 2008
130 Posts
Montana
Stoked
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Tue Dec 20, 16 9:02 am |
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Yes you can flag a kite on most bars as long as its not mini-fifth.
If its light or moderate you shoot to the side and pull a front line to leading edge down into the wind.
On a modern bar will use slingshot for example in high winds let it go and it will sort itself out. (they almost always land leading edge down into the wind after a little bit of flopping around)
never had a problem except with mini-fifths as the hold tension as do some foils in high winds even reride systems. for that matter even a true 5th line can if its big enough kite and strong strong winds. fabric is fabric in the wind. It is a sail unless its laying face down into the wind there will always be a chance for some pull in stiff winds.
option 2 is tether launch and land. Still watch out for the mini-fifths in high winds they can rip out ice screws and pickup picnic tables no joke.
Its important to learn how to master the self launch and land it will only make you more efficient come summer time when no one is around to help. There isn't any difference in the launch and land Technic between water and snow. foil or tube its all the same.
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tgautier
Since 22 Oct 2016
48 Posts
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Tue Dec 20, 16 11:47 am |
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Anyone trying to snow kite the sandbar today?
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Johnb
Since 02 Aug 2010
494 Posts
Obsessed
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Tue Dec 20, 16 11:59 am |
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I have not had any problems flagging on a mini 5th
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Matt V
Since 26 Oct 2014
462 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea
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Tue Dec 20, 16 7:10 pm |
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If "mini 5th" is the same as flagging to both front lines (releasing the back lines by letting the bar go away, but keeping both the front lines connected) - Yes that can develop some serious power if the kite rolls and goes to the back then points up. No picknick tables. You need an immovable object. A tree of 6" or more in diameter is good.
Some confusion, due to manufacturers calling this one thing and sometimes calling it another, can arise as gear is developed and marketed.
Please be specific on how the kite actually flags. An easy way to do this is to simply mention which lines are tensioned upon release. You can also add which lines are released to make sure there is no confusion.
2013 North quad bar, 2012 or earlier Best 4 line - tensions both front lines, while releasing the backs (mini-fifth)
Old school 4 line foils - tension the back lines while releasing the fronts
New school Ozone foil kites, North 5thline - tension the 5th line while releasing the backs and fronts
Slingshot tension, 2013 Best, most other modern kites - 1 front and release the other front along with the backs (are also released).
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Johnb
Since 02 Aug 2010
494 Posts
Obsessed
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Tue Dec 20, 16 7:31 pm |
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I have ocean rodeo kites and they flag on both front lines.
They call it a roll over system, I am not sure if theirs set up is any different than others however I have hit the release in powered conditions on water and snow without issues.
The only time I had a problem was when the kite had flipped inside out before I hit the release and the kite didn't completely depower. Under this scenario I imagine a single flaging line would have worked better.
Based on my experience I have confidence in the system.
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Pepi
Since 16 Jun 2006
1831 Posts
Pure Stoke Sports
Shop Owner
CGKA Member
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Pepi
Since 16 Jun 2006
1831 Posts
Pure Stoke Sports
Shop Owner
CGKA Member
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Matt V
Since 26 Oct 2014
462 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea
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Wed Dec 21, 16 10:16 am |
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JohnB wrote: | I have ocean rodeo kites and they flag on both front lines.
They call it a roll over system, I am not sure if theirs set up is any different than others however I have hit the release in powered conditions on water and snow without issues.
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I think Cabrinha did that too? So I guess you would also have to specify in this instance how the kite behaves on this version of a "mini-fifth". Guess I get an "F" for effity eff-ort on how to describe kite flagging systems.
But nice on the session on the sand bar. Ever have a kiter in the water while one is on the snow?
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craz z
Since 01 Dec 2008
130 Posts
Montana
Stoked
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Wed Dec 21, 16 11:39 am |
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Yeah I was talking about front tension back slacked mini fifths under normal powered conditions its benign.
On approaching snow squalls unexpected higher winds by your self wanting to get the kite put down and away quickly can be very very difficult and can put you in the position of cutting out entirely. also trying to get to the front line to put it down can cause a serious issue with bar wrap death loop.
The mini fifths I was referring too sit the kite to the side of the window ready for relaunch even on full flag normally its a non issue but in overpowered higher winds your sitting there under tension basically screwed. by your self with no one around can be a very difficult situation wait for a lull or let it go especially if the wind ramps even higher.
Thats the only reason in my opinion I wouldn't consider a bar with the feature its nice to have most of the time but alone in the middle of nowhere I've experienced a injury from a deathloop and also sitting under tension waiting for the wind to slow down to get it down safely. they are not common but if you need to be 100% self sufficient and solo kite alot I would not consider a mini fifth.
This also happened long ago on an early foil design with back tension front slack couldn't get it back in and there was enough tension on it i wasn't comfortable in high winds.
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