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Kmun
Since 05 Jul 2009
250 Posts
Obsessed
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 Fri Sep 09, 16 3:35 pm Re: WAVE KITES |
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| blowhard wrote: | so,
I really prefer a kites that has a far amount of back tension so I can turn it when going down the line, and the Razor has been doing it for a long time,(and really hate the front line ride). |
The conclusion that gross rear line pressure has the greatest effect on turning a drifting kite may be misguided. What if pressure amplitude is not related to the sensitivity to induce a turn.
One test: I have owned 2013 Drifter's, 2014 Neo's, 2015 Pivot's, 2016 SST Waves.
If it is bar pressure from rear loaded lines is what your looking for then IMO bar pressure ranking highest to lowest was:
1. Neo
2. Pivot
3. Drifter
4. SST
I did not test these kites back to back and new design tweaks and claims have come along. But to the point, this bar pressure rank is not reflective of their rank in quickness or ease of turning each drifting kite. In this case, one may conclude that gross rear line tension (bar pressure) is not directly related to kite agility. Perhaps greatest influence on agility is in other variables.
1. "ease of distorting (twisting) the wing
2. location of center of effort on each wing
3. Lever arm lengths and locations
4. Friction levels along the wing
5. ... |
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patdaniels
Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
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| Fri Sep 09, 16 3:58 pm |
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BE STOKED, lots of good wave kites out there!
Last edited by patdaniels on Wed Sep 14, 16 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total |
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1surfer
Since 20 Apr 2010
354 Posts
'Ualapu'e / High Rockies
Obsessed
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| Fri Sep 09, 16 4:20 pm Try them |
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One thing to consider is that kites can be much like bikes and skis and snowboards. They really do feel different to everyone. I had a lot of research into a mountain bike and I was sure it was the one I wanted, but when I rode it, I did not like the feel at all.
I tried my friends brand new Drifter. He tried my brand new Reo. I thought his drifter felt like a slow, heavy, soggy Reo with 5 lbs of wet sand on it. I think he liked my Reo but would not verbally admit it.
He is a great kiter and he loves the Drifter. It is a good fit for him. It feels good to him. It works well for him. That makes it a great kite.
We both sail in the same wind and waves. Just because his kite does not feel good to me does not mean that its not a good kite.
There are a bunch of great wave kites out there but to really find the right one you have to demo some of the candidates.
Its all about how it feels and you have to try them to know how they feel.
You can talk about it and look at it all day but ya gotta try it to actually know what its like.
I say try a Reo ...
_________________
Ozone Reo's. C&k Beach Boy Service, Windsurfing Waikiki, Hawaiian Windriders, NSRN. |
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windtzu1
Since 02 Aug 2012
25 Posts
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| Sat Sep 10, 16 3:26 am |
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You're spot on 1surfer. It often comes down to "feel" and what gels with you. I spent some time with my friend's new North Neo's (015's) which he and many love. Personally it's a nice kite with many superlatives, but I didn't care for them.
I remember having a similar conversation with my buds in our windsurfing days. You try some gear, immediately gel with brand and model x. For years you tune in to that gear and it becomes the standard by which you judge everything else. This doesn't make lesser of different products.
Think about it, what we do out there, our gear is an extension of the body. Given your style (your riding personality) different kites support this better than others. This is why as your skill set grows as does your need for different gear. It's a little like shoes, some fit better than others and there comes a time when you just know, "Ah this is the perfect fit." |
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2025 Posts
Windward
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| Sat Sep 10, 16 7:18 am Re: wave kites |
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| juandesooka wrote: |
I'd say a "freeride" kite aims at middle of the road hybrid, takes the combination of attributes that makes it pretty good at everything, though not particularly excellent at anything (compared to the best in each category). Kind of like a station wagon...it isn't a minivan or a truck or a sports car....either takes the best of each of these categories for the best combination, or it does poorly in each category, depending on if your cup is half full or half empty. |
Ya that could be right "Station Wagon" (or Estate if in Europe)
good at both ends ,
I was really wondering if anyone has really triad the ROAM,
but thanks anyway |
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leonard
Since 10 Sep 2016
4 Posts
Kook
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| Sat Sep 10, 16 11:50 am |
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Blowhard I hear the ocean rodeo are a great choice for dingle dangling .
A slingshot could probably bring your riding to another level with a few lessons .
I prefer to ride a bit powered so drifty and dangles are not where my kites live.
Get ahold of me if you would like to demo my kite.
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blowhard
Since 26 Dec 2005
2025 Posts
Windward
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| Sat Sep 10, 16 12:42 pm |
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| leonard wrote: | Blowhard I hear the ocean rodeo are a great choice for dingle dangling .
A slingshot could probably bring your riding to another level with a few lessons .
I prefer to ride a bit powered so drifty and dangles are not where my kites live.
Get ahold of me if you would like to demo my kite.
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i'll be at the jetty |
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juandesooka
Since 21 Jan 2014
98 Posts
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| Sat Sep 10, 16 9:12 pm |
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| My friend has a Roam prototype. ..loves it in the waves. Great drift. |
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Mtjustice100
Since 14 Jun 2014
49 Posts
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| Sun Sep 11, 16 9:23 am |
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| Naish pivot. Amazing delayed turn for beautiful bottom turns. Huge range. Excellent drift/ down the line ability. Throttle!! |
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sagebrush
Since 31 Oct 2009
209 Posts
north,van,bc
Stoked
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| Mon Sep 12, 16 12:24 am neo |
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| The 2016 neo 9m that big winds sold me is just frickin amazing in the waves!!!thx guys!!! |
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west
Since 09 Oct 2008
136 Posts
Lake Michigan
Stoked
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| Mon Sep 12, 16 3:51 am |
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...delayed bottom turns, low bar pressure, great drift.....bunch of mumbo jumbo. The problem with a dedicated wave kite is the Kiter. Most riders kiting in the surf, try to act like they're surfing; you're kitesurfing by God, ride like it. Go w speed and aggression..if you want to surf, get rid of the kite and paddle out! Kitesurfing should be wavesailing magnified, instead it's turned into "restricted surfing", turtling on down the line whistling a tune...
I say try a reo, I mean SST; oh hell I forgot who sponsors me now; but whatever I'm riding, try that!! |
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juandesooka
Since 21 Jan 2014
98 Posts
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| Mon Sep 12, 16 8:05 am |
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| west wrote: | ...delayed bottom turns, low bar pressure, great drift.....bunch of mumbo jumbo. The problem with a dedicated wave kite is the Kiter. Most riders kiting in the surf, try to act like they're surfing; you're kitesurfing by God, ride like it. Go w speed and aggression..if you want to surf, get rid of the kite and paddle out! Kitesurfing should be wavesailing magnified, instead it's turned into "restricted surfing", turtling on down the line whistling a tune...
I say try a reo, I mean SST; oh hell I forgot who sponsors me now; but whatever I'm riding, try that!! |
For low interval wind waves on a lake, I don't think a wave kite is the optimal ride. Powered bump n jump sessions are super fun, like a jet propelled skateboard, but you don't need or want drift for that.
Wave kites seem better suited to ocean swell (and maybe Gorge swell), where the rides are longer than a few seconds. Most of the surfers I know who are attracted to kiting, it is about getting way more waves and more fun ripping back out than paddling ... but once on the wave, the preference is to surf it more than kite it ... use the wave's energy, not the wind energy. Then, at end of ride, power up and ride back for another.
I think you're talking apples and oranges ... both tasty, but not really comparable.
Last edited by juandesooka on Mon Sep 12, 16 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cathy o.
Since 11 Aug 2014
83 Posts
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| Mon Sep 12, 16 9:21 am |
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Maybe a bit OT.. but I’m curious…
I have little ‘wave surfing’ experience and have only been to the coast a handful of times… 2 trips to Punta San Carlos! and a bit at Ft. Stevens and Manzo. But I really don’t get out to the coast much, and do most of my riding in the Gorge. Really love the swell, Rufus and downwinders! It’s almost more fun… a big, long wave to ride down wind! No sharks and big waves crashing down on me!
So, I need a kite that hangs out and ‘drifts’ while I try and do my thing on the swell. But also deals with the super, gusty Gorge conditions. I’m a light rider, 115lbs., My quiver is 4.5, 5.5 and 8M Drifters. And I find they handle all of that superbly… for me anyways. I’m always trimming my kites when I ride in the Gorge because it’s easy to do on these kites and it helps me handle the gusty conditions. I’ve rarely ‘outrun’ my kites going downwind. The Drifters tend to just ‘sit’ through the gusts if I’ve got them trimmed correctly. They are always where I think they are in the window and I rarely feel like I’m going to get launched if over-powered.
I see a lot of strapless riders and Drifters in the Gorge. They are always on the smallest kites…seems to me the smaller the better. For turning, drifting, gusts, etc… They also seem fine for going upwind. It’s more about the board. Better on my surf than twin. Also how efficient of a sailor you are.
Do the other wave kites have that kind of range? Which would be good to try? |
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knotwindy
Since 25 Sep 2011
598 Posts
Addicted
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| Mon Sep 12, 16 12:56 pm |
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Most wave kites have that kind of range and drift but
They all have a slightly different feel so you have to try them to find what YOU like.
They are all "good kites".
Not much help I know but it really is all about feel...... |
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Matt V
Since 26 Oct 2014
462 Posts
Summer- OR Coast, Winter - My van near good snow
Explosive Diarrhea
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| Wed Sep 14, 16 8:11 am |
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| west wrote: | | ...delayed bottom turns, low bar pressure, great drift.....bunch of mumbo jumbo. The problem with a dedicated wave kite is the Kiter. Most riders kiting in the surf, try to act like they're surfing; you're kitesurfing by God, ride like it. Go w speed and aggression..if you want to surf, get rid of the kite and paddle out! Kitesurfing should be wavesailing magnified, instead it's turned into "restricted surfing", turtling on down the line whistling a tune... |
I agree with you on this statement.......but only for me and only for now. One day I may change my current approach. But I kite aggressively (insert other preferred buzzword here) at this stage in my kiting experience, whether it is nice long breaking waves or short quick junk. So that is me. And I do it because I am in it for the precision roller coaster ride - not the scenery, not the nostalgia of when I used to surf, not the illusion of making it seem like something else. I only kite for the fun of it, at least for now.
But don't berate others preferred style when expressed in a safe manner. It does nothing for you, for kiteboarding, or for humanity. And no matter what you think, it does nothing for those kiters you say "are doing it wrong". Be a good example and I appreciate that you have an personal opinion/outlook on my personal kiting style which is similar to mine. I think we just differ on whether we believe everyone should do it "our way".
_________________
MSN has temporarily removed commenting on our websites while we explore better ways for you to engage in discussion on the issues you care about. |
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Sasquatch
Since 09 Mar 2005
2058 Posts
PNW
Bigfoot
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| Wed Sep 14, 16 8:28 am |
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| west wrote: | ...delayed bottom turns, low bar pressure, great drift.....bunch of mumbo jumbo. The problem with a dedicated wave kite is the Kiter. Most riders kiting in the surf, try to act like they're surfing; you're kitesurfing by God, ride like it. Go w speed and aggression..if you want to surf, get rid of the kite and paddle out! Kitesurfing should be wavesailing magnified, instead it's turned into "restricted surfing", turtling on down the line whistling a tune...
I say try a reo, I mean SST; oh hell I forgot who sponsors me now; but whatever I'm riding, try that!! |
Please come out and visit Blowhard. I'm sure your demo with whatever your riding now would be enjoyed by more than a few out his way.
That the thing about demos. . . your looking for something in a kite. Sometimes you find it and other times you just deal with it and make the kite work. Demos are great, but much effort involved on both seller's side and buyer's side. |
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J.P.
Since 10 Mar 2005
638 Posts
Addicted
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| Wed Sep 14, 16 8:38 am |
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| west wrote: | | I say try a reo, I mean SST; oh hell I forgot who sponsors me now; but whatever I'm riding, try that!! |
I second that, try an Ozone REO!
When you do, you will quickly understand the advantage Ozone has with 20+ years of designing fabric wings prior to the invention of kiteboarding!!! think about it... Try before you buy! You will not be disappointed and the information you get will be more accurate to you than any 'paid for forum kite pimp' suggestions.
| Quote: | | I really prefer a kites that has a far amount of back tension so I can turn it when going down the line, |
ok, well, that might not be the Reo. I'm a bit of a demo whore and did manage to ride all the new models this year. Given your requirement, the Drifter had the most pressure out of the 2016 & 2017 wave kites that I flew this summer.
| Quote: | | You've owned all those kites and know the differences. Explains why Wave SST, for example, is fast across the wind window even with slack steering lines. |
LOL.... what we have here is, a fundamentally challenged statement!!!
or it's simple pimp-speak (what I ride is best for you)!!! LOL!!!
FYI: A basic fundamental of ALL four line kites is that they fly forward faster when the pressure is biased to the front lines.
All 4 line kites.
...or at least that's what IKO was preaching in their instructor training courseware, circa 2002.
Logically speaking, when you sheet in a kite, adding pressure to the rear lines, this line pressure holds the kite back or slows it down from getting to the edge of the window (as well as changing its AoA to the wind)
pray for wind!
jp
gdi: gosh darn indy-pendant
PS: I have a 8m & 10m 3 strut Rally's that have low days on them for sale. Ping this forum and many will tell you, it's the best kites ever built
_________________
John
UPWIND LAUNCH OF A SPORT
Last edited by J.P. on Wed Sep 14, 16 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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