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Above or below
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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wannabekiter

Since 14 May 2015
269 Posts
Hood river
Obsessed



PostTue Aug 23, 16 7:32 pm    Above or below Reply with quote

Ok I searched hard and came up empty.. What's easier to pull, a above bar or below bar depower? I find it takes a pretty hard yank to get the depower line loose.
Most of the time I end up putting my kite down on the water.
My GF can not depower her kite even with the kite on the water. We are both using 2014 sling shot bars. Her is only 20 days old. Bought it on a close out.
About to buy myself a new ss bar. Which one? above or below.?

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Spike

Since 13 May 2007
1414 Posts
Alameda
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PostTue Aug 23, 16 7:55 pm     Reply with quote

I have both above & below bar depower SS bars, all other things being equal, the above bar depower is way easier provided you don't have trouble reaching it.

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cpc219

Since 12 Jun 2014
291 Posts
The Dalles
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PostTue Aug 23, 16 9:15 pm     Reply with quote

It's totally preference. My Naish bars have a choice to come with either above or below and I prefer the below. If you are really lit and the wind is rough it's nice not to have to try and reach up and try to grab that thing while everything is bouncing around. Also when you are depowered you don't have that extra bit of line getting in the way of the bar when it's fully out.

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HRnico

Since 22 Mar 2008
260 Posts
Da Hood
Obsessed



PostWed Aug 24, 16 4:57 am     Reply with quote

I prefer above, but I use a seat harness. The below becomes so low it hard to deal with. Waist harness moves everything up alot.
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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1634 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostWed Aug 24, 16 5:01 am     Reply with quote

Once you become familiar with the ease of a below the bar de-power you will be free to make this choice.
Pulling the below the bar de-power isn't any more difficult than above once you learn this technique:
Push away the bar (your back lines) as you pull in your de-power (your front lines). This makes the pull super light and easy.

I personally dislike above the bar when I borrow other people's stuff. Messy, gets wrapped up and trapped. This is especially true when you've go a ton of de-power with a foot of spare line hanging.

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wannabekiter

Since 14 May 2015
269 Posts
Hood river
Obsessed



PostWed Aug 24, 16 6:09 am    Thanks Reply with quote

It's not pulling of the depower line, it's getting it loose from the cleat. I have strong hands but maybe I am just getting old. Very Happy

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kitezilla

Since 22 Jun 2006
453 Posts
gorge
Obsessed



PostWed Aug 24, 16 6:54 am     Reply with quote

Maybe the new North Clicker bar will solve the problems related to the conventional power line adjuster problems... the reaching, tugging, tangling of loose ends, etc...

You can follow the discussion by the North Rep Dan on Kiteforum.

I have found that a bar system with a longer "throw" allows me to dispense with any power line adjustment device.

In the old days, I always preferred an "above-the-bar" Pull-Pull web adjuster... like the old Wipika One... because you could just grab it and "hang" on it to get the depower you desperately needed at times, with the old kites. Times have changed though.

It will be fun to see the results of real world testing on the new North bar system... kind of pricey, but it may be justified.

Kitesurfing North Click Bar how to videos:

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2393636&p=942852

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Sella

Since 21 Apr 2007
1794 Posts
Doin' The Dalles
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PostWed Aug 24, 16 7:07 am    Re: Thanks Reply with quote

wannabekiter wrote:
It's not pulling of the depower line, it's getting it loose from the cleat.

Make sure you're not letting the grab handle go all the way out so it's sitting directly on top of the cleat. Always leave at least 1/2 inch - inch of depower rope to help with your pull.

If you're depowering more than 6 inches...you've rigged too big. I set all my bars at 1 inch and never touch them again as I've never thought you get that much depower from that adjustment point and no worries about rope wrap etc. For me personally a lot of depower makes your power curve peaky and more difficult to manage smoothly. For beginners this is difficult because in your mind you're thinking the more depower you have...the mellower the kite is. Not so.

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Nak

Since 19 May 2005
4199 Posts
Camas
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PostWed Aug 24, 16 7:14 am    Re: Thanks Reply with quote

Sella wrote:
wannabekiter wrote:
It's not pulling of the depower line, it's getting it loose from the cleat.

Make sure you're not letting the grab handle go all the way out so it's sitting directly on top of the cleat. Always leave at least 1/2 inch - inch of depower rope to help with your pull.

If you're depowering more than 6 inches...you've rigged too big. I set all my bars at 1 inch and never touch them again as I've never thought you get that much depower from that adjustment point and no worries about rope wrap etc. For me personally a lot of depower makes your power curve peaky and more difficult to manage smoothly. For beginners this is difficult because in your mind you're thinking the more depower you have...the mellower the kite is. Not so.

Good info from Sella. Also, remember to pull towards your stomach when releasing the cleat. The natural tendency, since the cleat is so close too you--is to pull sideways or perpendicular to the rope. You have more leverage pulling in that direction, but the force required to get the rope out of the cleat is much higher. The pull should be parallel to the lines--straight back, just as it would be if you were using an above the bar system. Also, push out on the bar to de-power the kite while releasing the cleat. The reduced tension on the line will help as well.

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voy-tech

Since 08 Apr 2014
372 Posts
Seattle
Obsessed

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PostWed Aug 24, 16 7:21 am     Reply with quote

With all the cleat systems (vs pull-pull of some of the older designs) you always need to first pull in the depower to unlock the line and then release it - pulling perpendicular to release the line from the cleat won't work.
And as far as depowering the kite what wylieflyote said is gold - when you want to depower just sheet in (pull the bar in) then as you sheet out (pushing the bar out) you pull in the depower - I found it the easiest way to depower with Slinghshot kites.
Personally I have both bars from Slingshot with above and below the bar trim, and while I learned to love the below the bar trim, my wife prefers the above the bar - simply because she can use her body weight more effectively to depower the above the bar trim and therefore need less arm strength.

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blancoh2o

Since 15 Mar 2005
1153 Posts
Oregon
Phishy



PostWed Aug 24, 16 7:23 am    Re: Thanks Reply with quote

Sella wrote:
wannabekiter wrote:
It's not pulling of the depower line, it's getting it loose from the cleat.

Make sure you're not letting the grab handle go all the way out so it's sitting directly on top of the cleat. Always leave at least 1/2 inch - inch of depower rope to help with your pull.

If you're depowering more than 6 inches...you've rigged too big. I set all my bars at 1 inch and never touch them again as I've never thought you get that much depower from that adjustment point and no worries about rope wrap etc. For me personally a lot of depower makes your power curve peaky and more difficult to manage smoothly. For beginners this is difficult because in your mind you're thinking the more depower you have...the mellower the kite is. Not so.


I totally concur! a lot of people "power" their kites and let the de-power rope go all the way out until the little stopper ball at the end gets jammed into the cleat. This is bad for several reasons. 1. It's a bear to depower the kite once that ball is stuck into the cleat. 2. it puts a lot of wear and tear on your depower line. I have seen several posts over the years where the rope completely broke and caused a unsafe condition. (un-flyable kite)

My comments apply to both above and below depower systems. The point is......ALWAYS cleat your line and don't rely on the stopper.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions or need a better explanation.

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west

Since 09 Oct 2008
136 Posts
Lake Michigan
Stoked



PostWed Aug 24, 16 7:55 am     Reply with quote

If you're writing several paragraphs on how to use a depower system...something is drastically wrong.....a lot of the bars are just too dam complicated. How else can a manufacturer justify $500 for a bar and lines....like Sella said on another post, KISS!!

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
663 Posts

Addicted



PostWed Aug 24, 16 8:17 am     Reply with quote

There are a lot of bars on the market these days. Most I have not tried.

In my opinion there are two categories when picking a bar:
1) Safety
2) Preference

1) In the safety category I want a bar that I can grab any single line and flag my kite out. If things go bad and I am wrapped up in lines I do not want to have to figure out if I have grabbed the correct line that can flag my kite. I want to simply be able to grab a line (any line) and start climbing. This is a personal requirement for me (which unfortunately eliminates some very cool bars on the market today).

In the preference category there seems to be a lot of give and take. If you like one feature you will likely have to give up on another.

Preferences might include:

- Amount of throw (if you have short arms vs long arms). More throw provides for a kite to have more range in gusty conditions but is a challenge for people with shorter arms as they can not reach the bar.

- How much force does it take to pull your depower? This is a big one for many people. I have learned to live with a bar that requires considerable strength to depower, however my wife complains about this.... Which may require our future purchases to change.

- Where does the depower rope slack reside? Personally I like the slack to be out of sight (below the bar depower) such that it is not flapping around in my field of view. But this comes at a cost in terms of how much force is required to pull it.

- Can a kite be self beach landed by grabbing the upper front line (while walking towards the kite)? This usually coincides with the safety question... but perhaps not always. If your front lines do not go all the way straight to your kite (perhaps there are rings between the bar and kite) then it makes self beach landing much more difficult.

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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
598 Posts

Addicted



PostWed Aug 24, 16 8:32 am    Re: Above or below Reply with quote

wannabekiter wrote:
Ok I searched hard and came up empty.. What's easier to pull, a above bar or below bar depower? I find it takes a pretty hard yank to get the depower line loose.
Most of the time I end up putting my kite down on the water.
My GF can not depower her kite even with the kite on the water. We are both using 2014 sling shot bars. Her is only 20 days old. Bought it on a close out.
About to buy myself a new ss bar. Which one? above or below.?


Is it the older black butter box QR or the newer red QR? The newer red one is much easier to release the rope from and pull the depower. If it is not the red one you can upgrade just that part from Slingy.

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wannabekiter

Since 14 May 2015
269 Posts
Hood river
Obsessed



PostWed Aug 24, 16 9:08 am    Finally Reply with quote

Yes mine is the older black one. Just some back ground here. I have been kiting 2 season in the gorge. About 80 days so far.
I have been kiting a place east of hood river lately. My GF has been kiting since the middle of july. So we spend a lot week nights there after work. I find putting about 5 inches or more depower makes walking the 30 yards into the wind easier. I like to get out to waist deep water when using my directional. Its just hard to pull the depower line out of the cleat once u reach deep water. No I do not let the stopper hit the cleat. So maybe the new red box is easier to use. I might just go check.

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1470 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostWed Aug 24, 16 9:33 am    Re: Finally Reply with quote

wannabekiter wrote:
Yes mine is the older black one. Just some back ground here. I have been kiting 2 season in the gorge. About 80 days so far.
I have been kiting a place east of hood river lately. My GF has been kiting since the middle of july. So we spend a lot week nights there after work. I find putting about 5 inches or more depower makes walking the 30 yards into the wind easier. I like to get out to waist deep water when using my directional. Its just hard to pull the depower line out of the cleat once u reach deep water. No I do not let the stopper hit the cleat. So maybe the new red box is easier to use. I might just go check.


Depowering the kite when you launch and walk out is a GREAT idea.
Same for when you land.
You're not the first person to complain about the SS depower. My daughters had to stop and lie on their backs in order to pull the line.

We finally figured out the solution.
As other people have suggested there are 2 keys to make it easy.
1. Depower the kite by extending the bar away from your body.
2. Pull the depower line towards your groin.

If your GF is having a problem - I'm gonna guess she has shorter arms than you?

If that's true - when you rig the kite on land.... attach the outside lines on the first knot (closest to the bar). This will lengthen the outside lines and put the bar closer to her body.

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Justsmile

Since 20 Jul 2009
1523 Posts
Not Portland
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PostWed Aug 24, 16 10:01 am    depowering Reply with quote

I have heard in person not rumor from Tony L. that when you pull more than 2" of depower with slingshot kites that you lose the maximum upwind performance. Ride powered up or switch to a smaller kite maybe??????
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