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Foil kit recommendations for learners?
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

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PostWed Aug 17, 16 8:41 am    Foil kit recommendations for learners? Reply with quote

Hi All,
I'm considering taking the plunge into foilboarding.
What are some good options for beginner-friendly board+foil setups?
Any good used gear out there? Let me know by PM.
much appreciated!
Bob

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Dern

Since 11 Jul 2010
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Vancouver, WA
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PostWed Aug 17, 16 4:02 pm     Reply with quote

Both the Stringy foil and the LF foil setups are easy to learn on (the only two I have tried) and economical when compared to a lot of other options. They're also very similar to each other. The LF foil is probably easier to learn on due to the bigger and slower wing.
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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

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PostWed Aug 17, 16 4:48 pm     Reply with quote

What does the Stringy setup consist of?
Does the Slingshot system with the short masts make learning faster/less dangerous?
thanks,
Bob

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Mark

Since 20 Jun 2005
3677 Posts
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PostWed Aug 17, 16 5:56 pm    Welcome to the darkside! Reply with quote

Bob,
So you want to "fly over the water" Good for you!

Having a shorter mast for the first day is helpful. It allows you to feel the foil under the board (in a lesser degree, as it's closer to the board, less leverage). But, you will crash more because once the foil breaks the surface it loses lift and you will crash. (But, you will crash closer to the water)

Bigger deal is learning to lean forward when you're about to crash. Unlike a surfboard or twin tip which the riding stance is weighted to the back. The foil is neutral weighted. If you lean back the foil will rise, if you are about to crash and lean back, the foil will shoot up and out of the water. Stay AWAY from the foil when crashing. So we lean forward and skip the nose off the water and "reset".

Keep your straps VERY loose or better yet get some NSI foot hooks. When up on the foil and going slow beginners can fall toeside or heelside and if your feet are snug in the straps you risk breaking your ankles. Plus the foil comes straight up to your face....

Which brings up.... Wear a helmet and a impact vest.

As for foils, there are a lot of choices now. But I personally would go with the Stringy foil. Its quick to rise and doesn't need a lot of speed to engage. Close second is the LF foil.

Once you master riding you should demo as many wings as you can. There are several to choose from that will bolt directly to your LF mast. You will find one that feels JUST RIGHT!

Feel free to chat me up on the beach or PM me. Welcome to the darkside!!

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1634 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
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PostWed Aug 17, 16 8:08 pm     Reply with quote

My friend, a foil noob, just purchased the 15" LF mast for learning. I can say that this is almost useless. Yes, my friend was able to quickly learn the feel of having a mast and wing under his feet... but that skill was learned in maybe 1/2 an hour and now there's no need for this super short mast. It's short enough so the crashes almost never happen, but also your foiling lift is just inches off the water. If I were to start from the beginning I would say the fastest track is a 24" mast and a bit of first day struggle. Then move up. Stringyfoil is the best.
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kitebot

Since 20 Feb 2007
251 Posts

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PostWed Aug 17, 16 11:15 pm     Reply with quote

wylieflyote wrote:
My friend, a foil noob, just purchased the 15" LF mast for learning. I can say that this is almost useless. Yes, my friend was able to quickly learn the feel of having a mast and wing under his feet... but that skill was learned in maybe 1/2 an hour and now there's no need for this super short mast. It's short enough so the crashes almost never happen, but also your foiling lift is just inches off the water. If I were to start from the beginning I would say the fastest track is a 24" mast and a bit of first day struggle. Then move up. Stringyfoil is the best.


I couldn't agree more about the short mast!

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stringy

Since 23 Jun 2006
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vancouver
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PostThu Aug 18, 16 6:40 am     Reply with quote

as for learning, I'm a fan of the shorter mast. I started the summer with a quiver of slow masts but down a couple now due to loaning them out. I currently have a setup that works great for experiencing your first rides. IMO I think its very challenging for most to take on the full length mast for their first ride. sure it is possible, but you will definitely pay your dues.
even worse is learning on an advanced foil like the racing style, its right up there with trying to learn a unicycle.
On my go to short setup, I have some very big and slow wings. they are tuned to go slow so you basically need plenty of power in your kite to get going. a couple of sessions on this and you get it. ready to advance onto a better setup.
I would say there are a couple of good foils to learn on that are available, mine, Liquid Force, Slingshot hoverglide...
As for the flight school, this is IMO the best way to go about learning, even though you may only use the longer sections, and only for so long and then you will totally outgrow them.
LF doesn't offer a short mast, but is a good setup to learn on. they now offer a more advanced setup so its easy to upgrade to their faster more performance oriented wings set.If you want to jump on my short mast setup, I just need a heads up to determine if it will work. I tend to take it to Stevenson when I have room in my van. it's some what of a hassle to pack multiple foils in my van so it's rare I do it on a regular basis. I have taken it there and got friends up and riding immediately.
Some advice I would give to a new foilboarder, stay away from carbon fiber when learning. I know everyone says they will be very cautious and avoid shallow water. trust me, when you are learning, it is is difficult to avoid some things when you are focused on other things. I know many who went the CF direction and end up being off the water due to damage to their foils. I love riding CF foils, but for the cost and risk of damage, I tend to stick to a more durable setup. some more advice, don't ride it like a surfboard. stand with more forward foot weight. bend knees slightly, drop forward hand and grab nose of board to bring it back down if it wants to climb out of the water, point the board downwind when water starting, and use foot hooks to avoid any foot injuries!

regarding the stringy foil setup, I make a fuselage to work with aluminum extrusion style masts like the manta, SS, and LF masts. the wings I produce are free riding style wings. these are the same wings I provide to greg drexler who designs/sells/owns the BRM clouds. They are CNC machined G10 fiberglass wings. I have found that this material has been proven to perform great, as well as be durable and handle all conditions.

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patdaniels

Since 29 Jul 2015
91 Posts
Seattle area
 



PostThu Aug 18, 16 8:02 am     Reply with quote

Agree with Jim, he knows....

My foil learning story - started about 8 weeks ago on Slingshot Dwarfcraft 54 board and Slingshot Hover Glide NF2 foil with Foil Flight School short masts, Progressed through the intial sessions using short mast foil flight school. Now, fully consumed with foiling strapless on full mast. My twintip is not getting much love these days....but will enjoy a reunion with it soon enough, maybe.

Most likely, you've not tuned into something like this before. Even if you are great with a kite, riding a foil is new and different, so it takes a few hours on the water (plan on 5 to 10 hours) working with the foil to develop muscle/mind memory around the unique movements required to foil and hold together lengthy straight runs.

That's where the short masts add value, during the first few hours on foil on water when you are developing muscle memory. Short masts are also good for riding in shallow conditions. The 30" Slingshot mast is plenty fun and is 5.5" shorter than the Hover Glide NF2 full mast. If you are riding at low tide, or swallow place short masts can be a great solution.

If shallow water is not a concern, you will want full mast when it "clicks" and you can hold straight runs as long as you want. Advantage of tall mast is more room to adjust pitch and roll of foil and deal with swell.

Summary for learning foilers:

1. Learn on short mast, you can skip 15" if you want to fast forward, spend time on 24" for first sessions until you start hovering, then go to 30" then full mast.

2. Not carbon foil for learning - you will smash your wing especially when learning. Don't buy an expensive carbon foil to learn on, a potentially very expensive move. Buy a non carbon to learn on, get proficient at it then decide if you want the more expensive, fast, sexy carbon foil.

3. Front foot strap loose or hook only at first. Straps or not once you are up and running is a personal decision, but first couple sessions IHMO use a loose front strap or hook only. I got rid of front strap fairly quickly and learned strapless, my personal decision... water starting a little harder that way but you will get it if you are persistent. I'll put straps or hooks on for jumping foil in future if I go that route.

4. Helmet and impact vest. Not just the foil itself hitting you, but also the board. Foil setup behaves differently from TT or Surfboard when you wreck. You will be hit by it, probably hard. Try to get away from it when you wreck and take longer to look back at the board, it could be just about to hit you in the face or back when you look back upwind for board.

5. Learn at a place where you have lots of room, not in the middle of crowded situation on water...you will flail at first, a lot!

Most importantly, have fun, manage risk using common sense - try your best to stay the heck away from the "battle axe" and board when you wreck. Totally worth any bumps or bruises, one of the coolest feelings! Addicted!

Last edited by patdaniels on Sat Aug 20, 16 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

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PostThu Aug 18, 16 10:03 am     Reply with quote

Thanks Stringy & patdaniels - very informative feedback.

The shorter masts make a lot of sense to me - even if you don't end up using them for long. Anything to make the learning curve more manageable and less dangerous. So it seems like the best "off the shelf" setup is the Slingshot Hove Glide + Flight school short mast set (I'm surprised LF doesn't make some short masts).

Not looking forward to tangling with all those sharp parts and boards that sneak up on you from behind, but everyone I've talked to that's been through the process is glad they did!

I'm currently riding a directional board (Ocean Rodeo Mako Duke) with very loose footstraps. I like having straps around - old habits from windsurfing days. I'm making most of my jibes and with the straps I can do some small jumps too. I like the idea of the foothooks- easier waterstarts, but still easy to eject when things go wrong.
- Bob

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nosbocaj

Since 19 Jul 2014
28 Posts
Portland
 



PostFri Aug 19, 16 3:40 pm     Reply with quote

If you want to go the LF route, but still want Flight School, Houston kiteboarding has developed an adapter:

https://www.americankiteboarding.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Interface_Plate_LF_Flight_school_system

I use it on my setup and it works great. I'm sure LF will make a shorter mast soon, but for now this is as good as it gets.

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Dern

Since 11 Jul 2010
544 Posts
Vancouver, WA
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PostFri Aug 19, 16 5:25 pm     Reply with quote

I would recommend the foot hooks over the foot straps. When using the foot straps, some fall angles, due to being high above the water, can possibly hyperextend your foot muscles/ligaments and it is very painful. It can also result in some situations where the foil will be flipped and tomahawked back toward you after you fall, because your feet pull it back down. On the plus side, it looks hilarious when other people do this, so if you have someone that will be watching you learn you may want to retain some of the "aaahh" factor.
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chrissmack

Since 08 Jun 2005
515 Posts
portland
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PostFri Aug 19, 16 8:22 pm     Reply with quote

stringy wrote:

Some advice I would give to a new foilboarder, stay away from carbon fiber when learning. I know everyone says they will be very cautious and avoid shallow water. trust me, when you are learning, it is is difficult to avoid some things when you are focused on other things.


agreed.

i've clunked my stringy foil a few times (while riding or trying to launch / land at stevenson) and it has survived with only minor dings that i just sanded smooth.

mast: go long and just be ready to get slammed a bit harder a few times.

hooks hooks hooks

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Kurt

Since 04 Nov 2005
73 Posts

 



PostFri Aug 19, 16 8:35 pm     Reply with quote

Use the foot hooks

   image1.jpg 

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mengoair

Since 17 Jun 2015
8 Posts

Kook



PostSat Aug 20, 16 12:40 am    Foil for sale on C-list incase you r intersted Reply with quote

Saw this foil for sale on C-list thought I would pass it along to you.....

https://portland.craigslist.org/grg/spo/5734285722.html

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Jonpnw

Since 22 Jul 2010
1322 Posts
Pacific Northwest
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PostSat Aug 20, 16 7:30 am    Slingshot Alien Air & Hover Glide - Jones Beach Today Reply with quote

Foil Curious ?

I will have the Slingshot Alien Air with some Stringy Foot Hookers and (3) Flight School mast to try today .

I would like to spend an hour or so learning and then it will be free to use.

Jon

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
218 Posts

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PostSat Aug 20, 16 10:31 am     Reply with quote

I've heard feedback both ways on the short mast approach. Obviously makes it less scary to fall in the dolphin stage, but some folks say the short mast doesn't really help that much. I saw that interface plate that Houston Kiteboarding made. They may still have some of these for sale. I checked with LF, and they said they'll be coming out with a "half mast" this fall.

Totally agree about going fiberglass for the first foils - it's gonna take some abuse and carbon is fragile.

Another factor is the wings - seems like LF wings are lower aspect ratio than Slingshot. Lower aspect seems more beginner friendly - starts foiling at lower speed. But has more limited top speed - so you migh outgrow them sooner.

About footstraps/foothooks: I see some people use two and some use three in a windsurfing configuration. Being a windsurfer, this is appealing - I know the footwork for three straps pretty well. Any pros/cons to two straps/hooks vs three?

thanks
Bob

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caps

Since 23 Dec 2010
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PostSat Aug 20, 16 4:43 pm     Reply with quote

I've learned easily on the Alien board and hoverglide foil. It seems real stable to learn on and you can jibe on foil at super low speeds. I find myself laughing at how slow I can do a controlled, foiling jibe on it. Having said all this, I have no other experience on foils other than the Liquid Force foil fish. The hoverglide seemed easier to me. But really, both are great foiling fun!

Cheers!

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