Is strutless ready for primetime?

voy-tech · Mon Apr 20, 15 3:21 pm **Is strutless ready for primetime?**

Hi everyone, I'm thinking about getting a light wind kite and to me a fast 12m strutless kite looks like the best option (I prefer faster vs larger). However this design is still relatively new therefore I'd like to ask the more experienced with those kites about how they fly - is it safe to buy older generation (2013/2014)? Are they prone to stalling in light wind, and how is the relaunch in sub 10mph.

Thanks in advance for all the feedback.

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2058 Posts PNW Bigfoot

I tried one last year at SI. Not my favorite kiting session and not my preference. . . My three cents.

Oh, and the person that let my try it retooled his quiver and got a big kite with struts this year.

Jonpnw · Mon Apr 20, 15 3:44 pm **Cloud BRM**

I demo'd Stringy's cloud last year and it was solid in subpar wind.

jerp · Since 22 Feb 2013 450 Posts Obsessed

i think its more personal choice than anything. I have met people on both sides of the fence. I think my next light wind kite will be a 12m solo from LF

jerp · Since 22 Feb 2013 450 Posts Obsessed

Love my 14m nrg also but I want more low end

jerp · Since 22 Feb 2013 450 Posts Obsessed

Love my 14m nrg also but I want more low end

Dern · Since 11 Jul 2010 544 Posts Vancouver, WA Addicted

With the number of light wind kites available these days, you must also consider what it is that you want to do during light wind sessions. Will you just be mowing the lawn, trying to surf around, still wanting to do freestyle stuffs, etc. This may alter your kite choice, particularly between strutless and strutted.

Sella · Mon Apr 20, 15 5:52 pm

Heavy bar pressure, circa 2004, is what I noticed instantly on a strutless kite.

This mag review is also not the most flattering; http://www.thekiteboarder.com/2014/04/tkb-lw-review-2014-brm-cloud/

I definitely recommend you demo one first...then the Solo....then the Airush One....then the NRG.....and then a 2015 RPM 12 (sans pulley) and report back which one turns the fastest if you like speed over size. Very Happy

voy-tech · Mon Apr 20, 15 6:45 pm

Haha, thanks for all the advice - I want to jump a little and play with a skim, just mowing the lawn is not too appealing to me.

airon^ · Since 07 Aug 2013 289 Posts Durango Obsessed

I have an RPM 6, 8, 10, and 12. And I went with a 14.5 BRM Cloud (2, I think, new this January).

I have zero regrets, although I prefer the Slingy bar so I can still go unhooked and just feels easier than the BRM bar.

I feel like it turns much like the 12 RPM, has a larger wind range, and have had zero problems with relaunch, on water or snow.

Heavy bar pressure? I'm not sure I even know what that means--but it feels very comfortable for me coming from RPMs. it is nimble, super packable, and I feel I can kite sub 10 mph winds.

Nuff said. Good luck!

dwaynej · Since 09 Sep 2013 207 Posts Stoked **CGKA Member**

bwd · Since 04 Aug 2007 385 Posts Obsessed

Ask not: is strut less ready for you, ask: are you ready for strut less?
There is some adjustment and learning to get the most fun and performance from them.
Do you want to bother? I have and think it's worth it.
I've had a 17m cloud since they came out and still dig it for free ride and surf.
Admittedly you cant throw it around quite like a small kite for surf, but it can shut off and let you ride the wave really well, and does turn faster than other kites its size.
Bar pressure builds at the top of wind range.
I also picked up a c2 7m and have ridden it from 20 to 40mph.
It turns like lightning huge range, and the bar pressure a bit less than c1.
In 30+ it will get you up there but not a primary boost kite obviously.
Bring on the waves.

One thing fun: in flat water and 15+ riding the 17 on a stopper and have really powered steady pull for popped jumps etc., and lots of float if you boost. Opposite to what is usually asked of the kite, but it can deliver. Otherwise though you will want a bar with long depower throw to use the range and drift ability

Strut less are definitely different enough that some may not like them.
That's ok by me. I like variety.
Anyway I have a 7 c2 cloud, 9 fuel, 13 c4, and 17c1. Would love to add a 9m cloud.
I would have a complete double quiver if kites were free, set of clouds and small Cs, plus bigger bridled kites...

muthergoose · Since 14 Oct 2013 169 Posts East Couve Stoked

I had a cloud 14.5, ended up getting rid of it. Not that it didnt have great low end and was extremely light, because it was. Just had issues with kite inverting, difficulty relaunching in certain circumstances. Disclaimer: My kite is in the water a lot. That being said I know people who use the cloud in wave riding and have never had issues so to each his own, I prefer at least one strut.

stringy · Since 23 Jun 2006 1726 Posts vancouver XTreme Poster

hey guys, first of all before I chime in, I'm good friends with Greg at Board Riding Maui. I'll try and keep this short, but may tend to drag it out because there's so much to write about..
He's done an awesome job with the strutless design.
regarding the question are they ready for prime time? Why wouldn't they be?
While I can't respond to why they don't work for some kiters, I can tell you about my experiences with the strutless designs.
I've been riding a BRM strutless since they came out. I had a first generation 13m that I used quite a bit back in Seattle. when I moved down here, it seemed rare to find time to make it work. It seemed like it would be either too windy or too light.
When i was dialed, I would love it's responsiveness and turning speed. my biggest complaint was the increased bar pressure when I would get overpowered. It would become hard to steer. Greg recommended I modify the bridle which did help but seemed like I lost some low end in lighter winds so changed it back.
This past year, I got the second generation clouds from BRM. 9m, 12m, and 14.5m.
I also started foiling the past year so this could be written as biased since I don't tend to ride the kites with traditional boards much.
I use the 9m about 80% of all the foiling I do, splitting time between the 12m and 14.5. the kites work very well because of their lightweight design making their ability to hang in the air like no other kite. turning a 14.5 shouldn't be painstaking. it is not with the cloud. last night at sauvies (only one there) I can jump, throw backroll kiteloops while riding in 8 gusting to 12 wind. I don't think I could have gotten away with any other type of board so my experiences will definitely vary with others.
I've ridden the 9m at the coast now for three sessions, hoping to make it a fourth today. I love how I can ride the kite with ease and never worry about it wanting to slowly fall out of the sky. I'm not saying it won't backstall, because just about every kite out there can in certain conditions. the clouds just like to fly. I like to loop my kite while riding down the line and find the clouds are good with minimal pull through the loop.
I'm really happy with the clouds. I used to ride a larger freestyle performance kite, but I made the switch and I am happy with where I am with the kites.
I've even rideen the 5m and 7m in the gorge. while I was originally hesitant with their ability to handle the gorge winds, I was impressed with how small of a size I could get away with and the boosting ability of the smaller sizes.

well if they're that good, why don't you see more? ok I try to come up with some disadvantages of flying these kites. first problem is they are so light, they need to be secured very well on the beach. not just sand on the canopy, you need to make sure the LE is weighted down or the sand will push off and your kite is gone. I know from personal experience.
Relaunch-probably the biggest concern of all riders who ride/interested in a strutless. I will say it can be frustrating if you tend to drop your kite. they relaunch fine in wind, but if its light, it takes skill to get it back up in the air. If I drop the kite, I relaunch ASAP to prevent water from entering areas that can weigh it down preventing relaunch.
Pump them hard! My first downwinder, I had a hole in the LE so I didn't pump it solid for fear of the bladder blistering through the LE. It flew horrible and was not a good experience. these kites like to be malibu barbie hard.

Like I said, I have the 9, 12, and 14.5m sizes. Not sure if they work with your style of riding or not, I really don't get to SI that much but if you're interested to fly them, I am happy to have you jump on them and see for yourself.
For foiling, I honestly have not found a better kite for my style of riding.
I've also ridden a handful of light wind kites. There are plenty out there and are super fun. I guess it just comes down to what do you want to do and how much fun you wanna have

muthergoose · Since 14 Oct 2013 169 Posts East Couve Stoked

if that pic doesnt sell you i dont know what would!

user124 · Since 02 Aug 2012 390 Posts Portland Obsessed

No comment on the kites, but Stringy I love your photography - that last picture is particularly stunning.

Gman · Since 11 Feb 2006 4907 Posts Portland Unstrapped

Stringy was slaying sauvies on that kite with his foil last night in 8 mph

- the acid washed REV also worked Twisted Evil