Rebels vs Dice for Gorge/Coast

Larry Pinta · Since 21 Aug 2013 57 Posts

Hi

Intermediate kiter looking to shift to North kites. I ride a Mako 140 and North Nuggett. Really enjoy learning to ride strapless on the surfboard but still only make 30% of my gybes. I ride approx 10 times a year and don't kite loop, jump high or do big transition tricks. I want a kite that is hassle free, good low end power, easy relaunch and would be good for snowkiting from time to time.

I want to learn to ride waves and enjoy playing on the swell in the gorge. I have kited at kite beach, The Wall, Hatchery etc.

I like the 3 strut mentality for ease of use and lightness. My wife/son may start to learn this year so the rebel may be a safer kite?

I would look at 2015 Dice only based on improvements but would entertain 2014 rebels. I am coming off 2013 switchblades. Flew OR prodigy which was a great kite but didn't like the bar.

I am looking to buy without demoing based on my location.

Thanks in advance

mxwllms · Since 26 Jul 2006 110 Posts Boring, Or Stoked

both are user friendly and safe. but based on the kites that you were on and the windrange (mostly low end) i would recomend that you get rebels. and based on your experience, how little you get out, and what you want to do with the kite i dont think the higher performance dice will benefit you or your learning family in any way. BUT you will get used to whatever kite you buy and probably end up liking it. good luck and i hope this helps!

Larry Pinta · Since 21 Aug 2013 57 Posts

Thanks

Would the rebel still be a fast moving kite and drift well in swell/waves?

Larry

Wonder · Since 28 Nov 2007 129 Posts Hood River, Oregon Stoked

Hi,

I've ridden Rebels since their first year (is that now 8 years ago?!). Love them. Just received 2015s at Labor Day.

I have a good friend who rides at Waddell (NorCal). He bought the 2014 7/9M Rebels, Neo and Dice. I asked him what he thought:

"Neo for the waves 100%. Drifts really well. Much more powerfull kite than the Rebel or the Dice. Extremely fast turning. My whole world right there. Less pop than the dice or Rebel. Less depwoer than the Dice and a lot less than the Rebel. Needless to say less range, so It makes you ride a smaller kite. Love it.
set up
9m x 22m/19m
7mx 19m FAST!!! love this combo
In hind sight, I would do a 10m/8m/6m

Need more time on the Dice to correctly digest.
same set-up as Neo. More pop than the Neo. good in the waves. Better all round kite than the Neo. Better than Rebel in the waves. Very C shaped looking kite. Looks like the old Vegas kites. Flys like them as well.

Rebel: avg in surf compared to the neo and dice. more pop. less bar pressure. better up-wind. All-around-performance. Rebel is the best kite. More depower range than both other kites. 5th line?

set up
12m x24m
9m x24m/19m
7m x 19m best set-up. Love this combo."

Neither of us are industry guys. I thought he had a good perspective (having also ridden Rebels for quite a few years; and, being a very proficient wave sailor).

Rebels - Can't go wrong. Super safe.

If you want to dial your kiting into a bit of a niche; maybe, the thoughts above may help.

Enjoy!

Wonder · Since 28 Nov 2007 129 Posts Hood River, Oregon Stoked

Larry Pinta · Since 21 Aug 2013 57 Posts

Hi Steve,

Thanks so much for the notes above. I think I am leaning towards the rebels do you know if the 2015 is a significant change regarding kites and bar? I am sure I could find some discounted 2014 or perhaps wait for the 2015s. I want the right kite so I don't mind spending a bit more for the 2015's.

Thanks

Larry

Wonder · Since 28 Nov 2007 129 Posts Hood River, Oregon Stoked

My gut is I feel the "newness" of the '15s more than anything.

I probably put as many days (45-60) on my '14s, as any year thus far.

The lack of tug (especially in gusts) of the new kites is very noticeable. Once again, my gut tells me, my '14s were probably just stretching and giving in all those little areas. Chock one up to "newness". Design / Development - Rebels seem pretty dialed after all these years (why I enquired with my friend regarding his thoughts on the Neo and Dice).

Other than that, if you can get some fairly fresh, used '14s, go for it.

Either way, it's kiting, and it brings a smile to my mug!

Hope that helps,

Larry Pinta · Since 21 Aug 2013 57 Posts

Any reason to buy 2015 bar over 2014? Could buy 2014 kites with 15 bar.

Thanks for all great feedback. What is best rebel sizes for two or a three kite quiver. 180lbs mainly ride gorge.

Larry

Wonder · Since 28 Nov 2007 129 Posts Hood River, Oregon Stoked

Hi,

I've always found a "little" hesitation in the resale market for one year's bar with a different year's kite. Just makes things a little tougher down the road (and I like things easy! ;-) ) Shouldn't matter, but I feel the secondary market doesn't like mixing and matching. As far as the substance of '14 vs '15 bar, not a whole lot different (color, stopper "ball" at the 5th line yoke, etc.).

6/8/11 works for me. 6/9 or 7/10 (depending on which way you wanted to lean your kiting wind strength preference).

Hope that helps,

NorCalNomad · Since 30 Mar 2014 10 Posts

I have a 2014 9m Rebel and bar if you're interested in buying used Wink

I love the Rebel. And if your son is going to learn there isn't a better kite out there for a new rider. Stable, handles gusts amazing, not too much and not too little bar pressure, and upwind ability of almost a race kite.

SpaceRacer · Since 04 Nov 2007 434 Posts Obsessed

Larry Pinta, I am a freeride, swell/waves guy (when I can get them) and have been on Rebels for years. Great kites but I did demo and then purchase a quiver of North Evos, which I ride on 5 lines. The boost and hang time does not feel as "rip your ass off the water" as the Rebel but it is still a great booster and is way more buttery and smooth and forgiving than the Rebel. A quick and great looper too. Just not the same insane range as the Rebel. I have both Rebels and Evos now and go to the Evo first. You should really try before you buy!

goiner · Since 26 Aug 2006 87 Posts

I have used the Dice 9 and 12 this past year along with the Neo 6m.
Still use the Vegas for lighter wind or flatter water.

Used to fly rebel but not for three or four years.

The Dice is a great compromise between wave and unhooked riding as advertised.
It does drift reasonably well and is responsive.
If you ever unhook, this works really well and although I am no expert at wakestyle by any means, it is just as fun as Vegas at my level.

Neo is an awesome kite. Fast and drifts. Lots of power vs the size.
My 6m acts like a 7 or even bigger.
I love the Neo and would not expect to consider unhooking with it as it is wave specific.
The four line setup is a little tough to relaunch in light winds with the high Y on the lines compare to other brands.

Many friends of mine still use rebels but note that they do not drift and are not fun to unhook.
The rebel has the best range and use in gusty conditions.

Rebels resell at a moments notice.

I am going with Neo up to 10m then either a 13m Dice or Vegas for my biggest kite and wakestyle attempts.

Larry Pinta · Since 21 Aug 2013 57 Posts

If I was to buy a 12m/9m rebel or Dice could I do one bar, If so what's size?

What would be perfect if I wanted 2 bars and possibly to add a 7 down the road.

Sure wish I could try before I buy but don't live nearer any shops.

SpaceRacer · Since 04 Nov 2007 434 Posts Obsessed

Larry, I fly Rebels and Evos and I've never flown the Dice but in my opinion, you can't go wrong with Rebel or Evo but I do think Evo fits your riding style and application best. I fly all my Rebels and Evos on 5 line 24m and 22m lines. North is a great kite. You'll be happy.

Larry Pinta · Since 21 Aug 2013 57 Posts

Is there a 2015 EVO planned?

Do you choose to fly 5th line for safety or is there other reasons in that kite?

How is low end on the EVO and does it go up wind well?

SpaceRacer · Since 04 Nov 2007 434 Posts Obsessed

Hi Larry,

I would say that for park and ride, the Rebel would probably only eek out the Evo on low end and upwind but I do find the Evo a faster, quicker turning kite so on 24m lines I can sign it faster than the Rebel and it is not as grunts and tractor-pull-like in the larger sizes.

The Evo is in my opinion a gentler, more fun, more playful, quicker, less grunty kite than the Rebel.

I love 5 lines for safety and self-landing. So yes, that is why I ride them on the Evo. Love 5 lines.

SR

Larry Pinta · Since 21 Aug 2013 57 Posts

Makes sense - is a new 2015 model planned? Is it a spring release kite?

Thanks