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Kite bladder leaks - screening test - consistency
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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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GregK

Since 21 Jan 2010
14 Posts
Comox, BC
 



PostTue Jun 03, 14 9:03 am    Kite bladder leaks - screening test - consistency Reply with quote

When I've got a LE kite bladder with a slow leak I'll use Dangler's screening leak test ( pump kite hard, coat bladder pockets with soapy water ) before taking the bladder out.

However I find this test does not always show the occasional tiny leak. My theory on why - bladders are slightly over-sized, so some portion of the bladder is folded over itself when inflated in the kite. If the pinhole is at a fold-over, then it won't leak enough to show on the screening leak test.

Sound plausible ? Any other reasons or theories why the screening L/T does not always indicate on a pinhole leak ?

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ldhr

Since 21 Jul 2009
1470 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostTue Jun 03, 14 9:12 am     Reply with quote

I'm a do it yourselfer for most things....
When it comes to my kites and fixing leaks and lines I use Airtime in Hood River.
Their service is A++ top notch and ridiculously cheap.
They know all the tricks to detect and fix leaks (15 years experience).
Drop it off one day and pick it up the next - with 100% confidence it's fixed.

Oops - just noticed you're in B.C.... good luck.

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GregK

Since 21 Jan 2010
14 Posts
Comox, BC
 



PostTue Jun 03, 14 9:38 am     Reply with quote

ldhr wrote:
... good luck.

Not looking for luck, or someone else to find the leak, I'm after an explanation on why the screening leak test doesn't always indicate.

Dangler, surely you have noticed this ?

Is it worth a deflate, bladder shake, & second inflate to hopefully move that fold and show the leak on the second inflate ? Haven't tried that yet.

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hoarhey

Since 20 Jul 2008
63 Posts
the corridor
 



PostTue Jun 03, 14 9:43 am     Reply with quote

Pump your bladder up more.

Or find a pool and immerse the entire bladder.

The Dangler's leak test is the STANDARD for finding inflatable leaks and not some patented invention.

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Sella

Since 21 Apr 2007
1794 Posts
Doin' The Dalles
FLY'IN HIGH PIE GUY



PostTue Jun 03, 14 9:51 am     Reply with quote

GregK wrote:
ldhr wrote:
... good luck.

Dangler, surely you have noticed this ?

Bladder leaks are one repair Dangler won't touch...because they are a real time consuming bitch and you never find them all because the one you're looking for one turns your ping tight kite into a somewhat softer LE 1 hour into your session. Kite still flies fairly clean....but you can tell......it ain't quite right.

Hoarhey's pool/bathtub immersion is the only way it works but time is money so luckily in the Gorge we have Airtime as ldhr noted. Best money every spent.

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chrissmack

Since 08 Jun 2005
515 Posts
portland
Addicted



PostTue Jun 03, 14 9:52 am     Reply with quote

hoarhey wrote:


Or find a pool and immerse the entire bladder.



this works great. or in the river where the water is clear.

you will see tiny bubbles floating to the top.

i had a tiny hole in a bladder that was so small, i could kite for an hour and it was fine. pump it back up, kite some more. sinking the bladder in water did the trick to find the leak.

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sfbomber

Since 27 Jun 2012
112 Posts

Stoked



PostTue Jun 03, 14 1:32 pm     Reply with quote

I'm a fan of the pumping the kite up rock hard and detecting leaks. I find it helps to really get the dacron soaking wet with buckets of water or a hose, then I follow with a sponge dipped in soapy water. Between the water and the soap, bubbles are bound to form. Be sure to try with the leading edge down and also with the kite on it's back so the bubbles have a chance to rise.
The other option I use is pumping the bladder up and submerging it in a trash can (or tub). This method is not as reliable as the above mentioned method, as you can't pump up the bladder as much (else the bladder material will stretch and deform).
I usually pump a kite up and leave it overnight to convince myself that there are no more leaks.

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Wind Slither

Since 04 Mar 2005
2570 Posts
The 503
METAL



PostTue Jun 03, 14 5:19 pm     Reply with quote

There are leak holes so small that they will not reveal themselves when you submerge the bladder in water. TRUST ME! The tips of our coastal beach grass are incredibly fine. Before I learned to avoid it I went through hell battling slow leaks.

The only way to hunt them down is to remove the bladder, pump it up pretty full and spray it down with a solution of water and dish washing soap. Check on it periodically over the next hours. It can take a few hours for tiny little bubble colonies to show.

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blowhard

Since 26 Dec 2005
2023 Posts

Windward



PostWed Jun 04, 14 6:23 am     Reply with quote

Wind Slither wrote:
There are leak holes so small that they will not reveal themselves when you submerge the bladder in water. TRUST ME! The tips of our coastal beach grass are incredibly fine. Before I learned to avoid it I went through hell battling slow leaks.

The only way to hunt them down is to remove the bladder, pump it up pretty full and spray it down with a solution of water and dish washing soap. Check on it periodically over the next hours. It can take a few hours for tiny little bubble colonies to show.

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But when the beach grass breaks off and is inside the kite Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

I'm sending to Airtime see if they can get out

just don't land your kite in the parking lot grass when it's light in At South Beach
Embarassed Embarassed

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craz z

Since 01 Dec 2008
130 Posts
Montana
Stoked



PostWed Jun 04, 14 7:28 am     Reply with quote

The best way i've found for the real small ones are number 1 the bladder has to be out.

2) you need to blow them up they expand exponentially when not in the LE. Be careful not to blow them up to popping levels just enough to say get it 1.5 times its original size that it would be in the LE.

3) if you have one pump you can pinch off sections and do small areas all the way across.

4) For me the soap test rarely works but only on larger holes that should be obvious anyways. The absolute best method I've found is find a real quiet place to work and use your ear against the bladder and feel the air I've found this to be extremely sensitive and have literally found pinholes.

Some of the real small and i mean 4hour small leaks will only be found by expanding the bladder to open them up otherwise you will never find them ever. and even then I've had to use the ear method and couldn't believe how small the leaks were.

I've used this in sucess and takes less then 1-2 hours at the most to find the worst of the worst holes.

The unfortunate part of some of them was the bladder was inferiorly made from the get go and sometimes they dry rot like a tire and the only option can be a full replacement. Many brands have had there bad batch bladder problems

Hope this helps.

I've even tied knots in the bladder to pinch area's off and it does NO harm to the material.

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Ryan

Since 14 Jul 2005
536 Posts
Oregon
Addicted



PostMon Aug 15, 16 9:39 am    new technique? Reply with quote

This is an old post but the first that came up in my search. I have the dreaded pin hole leak. My kite will stay hard for about an hour.

Does anyone have any new techniques for locating pin holes and getting them patched? Seems taking the bladder out and either 1. submerging it and looking for bubbles or 2. spraying it with soapy water and looking for bubbles are the two options.

Which works the best?

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Ho-Toe

Since 30 Apr 2014
231 Posts
pissed-off science guy like Bill Nye
CO2 quantifier & upwelling specialist



PostMon Aug 15, 16 8:53 pm    Serendipitous Reply with quote

I just went thru this little exercise... Kite got squishy on me after about 1 hr flying time. I took it home, pumped it up rock hard, then pumped it a little more . I took a ~2L spray bottle, filled it with water and a squirt of dish soap, then soaked the entire LE liberally. When going back over it the 2nd time, I noticed a little bubble trail.

Great! I found the leak!

But now I have to take the bladder out to fix it... Where will the leak be then?

Balls...

My guess is that it's around the replacement fill valve that I installed a few sessions ago. I guess I'll just heat up some water, remove the replacement valve, chuck it, and install a new one.

Wish me luck.

F N goatheads...

Dangler won't fix bladders? There goes my plan B.

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wylieflyote

Since 30 Jun 2006
1634 Posts
Puget Sound & Wa. Coast
XTreme Poster



PostMon Aug 15, 16 9:05 pm     Reply with quote

I've got TWO kites with 1.5 hour leaks. Airtime has my Park... found 2 pinholes and repaired... would not hold air overnight. More holes. Full LE replace. $$
My Cloud has more like a 2 hour leak. Being that it's got no struts I figured piece-of-cake. Removed bladder, pumped then wetted with water and dish soap. Nothing. Then submerged entire LE in water... nothing. Now it's back in the kite. Grrrrr. Oh Well.
All of these are from that damn grass at Roosevelt!!! Only set your kites up near the bathroom and swing-set.

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Kip Wylie

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west

Since 09 Oct 2008
136 Posts
Lake Michigan
Stoked



PostTue Aug 16, 16 4:08 am     Reply with quote

...when looking for small pin holes; use a magnifying glass and hold your mouth right; you always find them in the last place you look. STAY AWAY from the beach grass, it'll give you nightmares!!

In all seriousness, try anything that works (both methods listed produce results, it's just that oftentimes the holes are beyond minuscule and seal themselves temporarily) and perhaps most importantly is to de-grass the LE inside and out after repair, the "spearhead" is often still poking thru LE to the inside...and good luck. Grab an IRA for the task!

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dwaynej

Since 09 Sep 2013
207 Posts

Stoked

CGKA Member


PostTue Aug 16, 16 8:14 pm     Reply with quote

Pumping up the kite and using a spray bottle with a mix of detergent and water has always worked for me.

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Ryan

Since 14 Jul 2005
536 Posts
Oregon
Addicted



PostWed Aug 17, 16 6:36 am    then what??? Reply with quote

As Ho-Toe pointed out, I am not sure what the next step is after the hole is identified with the soapy spray bottle. The bladder is still in the kite so once the bladder is pulled out one could roughly locate the area of the whole but not close enough to find it and patch it.

what is the remedy for this step? Once the bladder is out and ready to be patched, how do you re-locate the identified hole to patch?

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dwaynej

Since 09 Sep 2013
207 Posts

Stoked

CGKA Member


PostWed Aug 17, 16 6:45 am     Reply with quote

Most of my bladder holes have been around valves or tube struts. Almost all of them can be repaired without pulling the bladder. Pulling the bladder is a PITA as you have to be really careful not to twist the bladder when you reinstall.

If you have to pull the bladder, ideally you already have a idea of where the hole is having verified with the spray bottle with the bladder in the kite. Once the bladder is out of the kite, confirm with a minimal amount of inflation and spray bottle.

Gets difficult as you need to close off strut hoses and I have done this by reconnecting the strut hoses to the struts with the bladder outside the kite.

If you do find a hole midway along the leading edge, run your hand along the inside of the leading edge to make sure there are no foreign objects that caused the hole.

IMO, much easier giving this to someone who does this all day long as it's a guaranteed 2-3 hour task if the bladder needs to be removed/reinstalled.

On a side note, strut hoses do fail so make sure you check hoses for leaks as well as bladders.

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