The best bar and why?

Sella · Tue Oct 22, 13 7:14 pm

[quote="SalmonSlayer"]

stringy · Since 23 Jun 2006 1726 Posts vancouver XTreme Poster

hi dwayne, I ride a 13m BRM cloud on occasions. when i do my naish bar with 24m lines seem to do the trick. I'm pretty sure greg over in maui uses these with his designs. just about any 4 line bar should work with minimal mods.
I've ridden it with my other bar, a 20m line setup and still prefer it on 24m lines.
I also have a 17m bar but usually reserve that for small kites.

dwaynej · Since 09 Sep 2013 207 Posts Stoked **CGKA Member**

Thanks all!

Lurk · Since 04 Apr 2009 355 Posts Obsessed

Nak, first off had time on cab, best, SS, EPIC, Ozone, Core, North bars.

Below the bar has inherent disadvantage.

When you want depower on a SS kite (which have Great range), your generally overpowered. Pulling straight back may make it easier to uncleat but does not help you reset cleat. It is very hard to adjust to desired length once released. That, along with lack of elastic bands. Tired of making sailor knots and loose lines when 75 cents solves the problem on a 300- 500? dollar bar. Yeah I know I can make my own but why should I? I expect it like EVERY other bar on the planet...

That said, I generally ride max power and re rig smaller if I need less kite. All kites perform best at full power and a reach for serious depower means your no longer optimized on that kite size.

Other than that I love the bars 800 lb test center lines, quality components.

Nak · Thu Oct 24, 13 9:08 am

Absolutely, every design has inherent disadvantages. Some prefer the tradeoffs with above the bar depower, some prefer the tradeoffs with below the bar depower. Myself, I like the simplicity of below the bar depower, and it's easy to see at a glance how much trim you have in. Plus, it's easier to modify. Same thing with the rubber bands, some hate 'em, some love 'em. I don't think Slingshot is trying to save money by leaving them off, I think it's a design decision based on what they feel most of their customers want. I understand you like them, nothing wrong with that. It's a preference. I'm glad to be without them. For me, less clutter is better. Again, a preference.

I have to admit though, I'm not sure how you're getting loose lines? My lines stay very tight. I finish the figure 8 wraps on my bar with a couple of feet of line left. Then make a few tight wraps around one end ending with a half hitch. It stays rock solid forever, and takes maybe an extra second or two.

No one bar design can possibly be perfect for everybody. We all have our own likes and dislikes. Even $100K sports cars end up being customized, so it's no surprise that you might want to mod your $500 bar.

Here's a before and after pic of how I mod my trim rope. There are three factors that make it tough to cleat and un-cleat the line. This easy mod addresses all three of them. One: Angle. The extra line makes it easier to pull straight back to both cleat and un-cleat the line.
Two: Grip. Related to the first factor. You can apply more force to the line with a better grip.
Three: Line geometry. Single layer amsteel is not round. It changes shape easily. What happens is the amsteel conforms to the shape of the cleat and buries itself deep in the cleat. This makes it difficult to disengage. I fix this by using dual layer amsteel. I feed 1/8" amsteel through itself to create the dual layer line. The dual layer amsteel has a number of advantages. It wears far better; I don't know why. I have trim ropes that I've used heavily since 2010, not even close to needing replacement. If the outer line does break from wear at some point, you should be able to limp it back to shore. Lastly, the dual layer retains a round shape. It does not compress down into the cleat so it releases easily. Adjusting trim is a piece of cake, including both cleating and un-cleating.

This mod takes about 15 minutes to do, plus tuning. (Which should be done anyway.) It costs a couple of dollars. (The extra line you see is cut off after tuning the bar.)

Sauve · Since 19 Mar 2009 97 Posts Hood River

Nice post Nak-

I was wondering what it was that made the SS cleat system so difficult. When I rode slingshot i LOVED that bar but the cleat system infuriated me, it seemed to be hardest to use when u needed it most. My new RRD bar is a cleat system but above the bar and it is hands down the easiest to use depower. I wasn't sure if it was angle or if it is the material used, but the two systems depower were night and day difference.

While I now like RRD over any other because of the depower, the simplicity, and the outstanding lines (not even sure what they are but they are 3 years old now and still look like they could tow a car) the trade off with it is that there is no true flag line. The flag line on the SS bar has saved my ass before and is very nice to have for beginner and teaching (and the gorge in general).

And yes rider preference is a big factor.

Lurk · Since 04 Apr 2009 355 Posts Obsessed

Exactly my point, when you need depower it's always more difficult with a below the bar system. And isn't that the purpose of the depower system in the first place? Apparently some like the SS cleat system so much they replace it with better rope.

But of course its all personal preference. Just like 99% of kite companies use elastic bands. Its just easier for most people. Why cater to the few?

And yes I do the wrap with halfhitch just like you and yes it comes loose not only at the knot but also the loops on the end, which can be worse. Plus when you walk your lines you often have a small tangle at the end to deal with.

I also add one more half hitch which does tighten it better but then have a knot to undo. These are small details yes, but not adding to the fun factor when its 39 degrees and ripping 6m.

Nak · Thu Oct 24, 13 5:58 pm

Lurk, I'm not putting down your preferences. They're yours and there's nothing wrong with that. If you want Slingy to add rubber bands, call 'em and let 'em know. If they think enough of they're customers want them I'm sure they'd add them. Posting it here though won't have the impact that calling them would though.

I can't explain why you're having the issues you're having with your lines. In 9 years I haven't had any of those issues and I much prefer not having the rubber bands on the ends. I'd have to cut them off if they put them on. But hey, I would for sure.

Sure, I prefer the Slingy bar enough to mod it. I like the safety system, the trim system, and the swivel. Like all that a lot. With an easy mod I find trimming it to be really easy. I wouldn't own an above the bar trim system. Doesn't mean it's bad, just my preference that I don't like it. BTW, no bar has dual layer lines that I'm aware of. I just like making stuff better, and this is a really easy mod to do. Anybody could do it with very little effort and very little cost. I have yet to see a bar that I wouldn't improve on. My '92 Blazer isn't stock either. That cost me $25,000 new.

knotwindy · Since 25 Sep 2011 598 Posts Addicted

if any of you have tried the 2014 release from SS, they changed the way the cleat works by adding a piece inside to allow the line to slide better at any angle and re-cleat just as easy. never have to look down or pull really hard, works much better. For me now, no mods necessary. just ride it.

Matt E. · Since 22 May 2008 318 Posts West Coast Sales Rep Obsessed

The 2014 Cabrinha bar is pretty insane for riding waves. Low v, easy to use swivel and the ability to adjust the length of the bar while you ride. The production bar is tested and trusted by some of the worlds best riders in the worlds most critical waves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5cJWaDIQAc

Josh_In_HR · Since 11 Jul 2012 11 Posts United States

Signs you need to ride more: You clicked on this link expecting a raging debate about the various merits of the british pub, double mountain, and the trillium, with a healthy disclaimer including the 5 reasons never to go to Jack's.

Lurk · Since 04 Apr 2009 355 Posts Obsessed

Well I thought this thread was about bar design so I mistakenly decided to comment on design issues.

Another small gripe: You can no longer clip your kiteleash to the end of the depower rope with the new 2014 SS bar. This was a great option as you used to be able to increase the amount of depower when riding suicide. Now If you do so, say goodbye to your kite as the leash will slip off the end.

Again personal preference I guess, but most guys I know loved that about the old bars. Just needs another mod.

These comments are not personal in nature but meant to add to the discussion. Its not my job to tell SS how to design thier bars, and I highly doubt they would take my suggestions as they have not in the past.

knotwindy · Since 25 Sep 2011 598 Posts Addicted

loosen the screw, pull the rope thru a bit and add a ring to the end

Lurk · Since 04 Apr 2009 355 Posts Obsessed

Good Idea, thanks I will try that one. I suspect SS made the change for more ergonomics when pulling the depower rope. Most riders could not care less as they don't ride suicide.

Man I do need to ride. Worst fall ever.

Bettyboarder · Fri Oct 25, 13 4:45 pm

macgruber · Since 06 Dec 2011 490 Posts SE PDX volcano Obsessed

I have a naish below the bar and an airush above the bar. I can see theres no perfect system as the below is next to impossible for me when the kite is lit. My airush (above) is usable when lit but its messy up there and is messy when wound up. Yesterday at Rooster in 30-40 gusty wind I had the center line wrap the depower handles on a crash. not cool.