WS Sandbar Parking Protocol

forrest · Fri Jul 26, 13 9:43 am **Re: CGKA ?**

I nominate you as the CGKA coordinator for this launch. Get to work.

wood · Since 21 Jan 2013 64 Posts

RR-POLICE GAVE ME A WARNING MONDAY NIGHT. WROTE NAME AND PHONE NUMBER DOWN HE SAID THE PARKING THERE IS R-R PROPERTY AND THE SIGN SAY NO TRESPASSING AS WE WALK RIGHT UNDER IT. COULD NOT ARGUE THAT NEXT TIME IT WILL BE A TICKET SO BEWARE! I NORMALLY LAUNCH OUT OF HOOD RIVER. SO THIS IS NO B.S.

hoarhey · Since 20 Jul 2008 63 Posts the corridor

So what happened on the tracks over the weekend to bring out enforcement on a Monday? Tourists standing on the tracks taking photos? Someone get hit somewhere?Car accident nearby?
Or maybe this is just a proactive attempt since the Thule runs are starting to ramp up and plenty of fishermen have historically (before Condit was removed) swarmed the site. Maybe now that the lower reach of the White Salmon has filled with sediment and there aren't any fishermen to harass the railroad is sending the message that kiters need to go back to the Event Site where access is guaranteed.

lloyd · Since 16 Aug 2007 108 Posts Hood River Stoked

For me, this topic raises more questions than answers questions.

1. Where does the railroads property start and end? One would assume that the fence is on the property line. The No Trespassing sign would apply to the property on the other side of the fence (ie the tracks) and not the property between the tracks and highway 14. If cars are parked legally, off of the road surface on hwy 14, what grounds is the ticket issued under?

2. How did the railroad acquire the property? Was it purchased, deeded or is it a right of way? All of which have different forms of enforcement.

3. Does the railroads property include the area underneath the bridge (ie the mouth of the White Salmon)? I would assume not.

4. Property lines are typically sited at the high water mark. Technically, the White Salmon sandbar is below the high water mark and would belong to the State of Washington, from my understanding. Waterway rules would apply, and are typically first come first serve.

Ofcourse, Tribal agreements would trump everything.

Anybody know anything official?

Thanks.

hoarhey · Since 20 Jul 2008 63 Posts the corridor

Lloyd, great comments and questions, but there are some layperson misunderstandings that we all have in your response. Now I'm no expert, so don't skewer me on my response here, but I do have some knowledge in this area. (and I went ahead and made some edits to my original post seen between <>)

First, I'm sure the railroad property ends where the public easement off hwy 14 ends. that probably means everybody is parking on railroad property and the easement ends at the edge of the road. The public usually gets like 5-15 feet from the edge of roads except when railroad property is involved.
So what about the land underneath the bridge? the property owner owns All of the dirt, rock, and trees inside their property line. Here is where is gets tricky. High water mark (only on federally navigable rivers) does provide for a public easement. <The land under the highwater mark is basically held as a public trust. This designation gives the public the right to "navigation, fishing, and commerce" which includes the public's right to walk.> Luckily the Columbia fits this designation, and parts of.the White Salmon also fit that designation, but not sure where that ends and begins. Well that just brings up more questions.
If I park at the old store <or along hwy 141>, walk next to the road, then wade through the water or below the high water mark, am I now compliant with all these easements and not violating the property rights of the railroad?
Does the high water mark public easement apply to railroad property or just average people property? the railroad is the most powerful landowner in America and probably has their own rules.
<Is BNSF's main beef that people are parking on their property or that kiters are making the engineers honk their horns too much?>

lloyd · Since 16 Aug 2007 108 Posts Hood River Stoked

Thanks for the reply.

LVDWD · Since 04 May 2009 103 Posts Stoked

wood · Since 21 Jan 2013 64 Posts

He was parked beside road where we park in a white chev Tahoe label bnsf. He was very friendly and said I know your just having fun but! It would be nice if they would give us access and a bigger parking lot to the west.CGKA?

forrest · Thu Aug 08, 13 12:10 pm

WindSki · Since 14 Dec 2012 402 Posts Portland Obsessed

Don’t worry for I’m going to add a large, very sizable sign saying access CLOSED permanently

niknas · Since 18 Sep 2006 181 Posts North of OR, South of WA Stoked

No comment, Photos says it all.

K4L · Since 19 Jan 2009 483 Posts Obsessed

Why all the drama? Don't cross the tracks, don't go south of the RR fence/trespass sign. Follow the path along highway right of way under the bridge. Fisherman been doing it for years. Don't bring extra attention. Shhhhhhhh

wylieflyote · Thu Jul 10, 14 4:58 am

Do some of you recall the elderly woman who was hit by a train and killed at this spot about 6 years ago? She couldn't hear the speeding train while standing on the tracks mesmerized by the beauty of the kites, sails, mountain, and river. The parking protocol is such a common sense practice, you would not think we'd need a lesson plan. Having retired from WSDOT it always shocks me just how many idiots there are in our world.
As far as the BNSF warning. Isn't the rule that with a warning you are in their records and your second offense is $1K fine?

PS, Side note, I don't like "secret", that's just a nutty parking situation for a US interstate route.

Scribble · Since 18 Nov 2005 636 Posts NoPo Addicted

Stupid is as stupid does...

moondog · Thu Jul 10, 14 5:36 pm

I saw a North Team Member chasing his dog down the tracks Monday. Chased 2 of their photographers off the tracks same day. These clueless people our going to shut this sight down and they don't even live here. It is up to us locals to confront and educate!

knotwindy · Since 25 Sep 2011 598 Posts Addicted

dan.at.duotone · Since 15 Apr 2010 31 Posts Gorge

Not that it really matters, but just to set the record straight no North team rider or photographer set foot anywhere near the tracks. I was there with them the whole time. None of those guys even has a dog.

We saw the dude chasing his dog on the tracks but he didn't come back down after so I never got a chance to discuss it with him. I don't think he's even a kiter. We also saw another heavy bald dude shooting with a Nikon from near the tracks, but again, we don't know the guy. I'm assuming he was a tourist. Pretty sure Toby's a Canon guy and Carlos had his crazy video camera setup at the E end of the sandbar, well away from anyone rigging or launching.

No one values that launch more than I do and everyone involved with North was well versed on the sensitivity of the area; how to park and where not to go; and everyone played it as low-key and cool as possible. We even went out of our way to keep the shoot/riders from interfering with locals riding and enjoying the area, welcoming even the constantly photo-bombing Sean with hoots and hollers.

I understand the urge to point fingers, but please get your facts straight first.

-Dan