Swell Pig

gabe · Since 16 May 2005 475 Posts Obsessed

that looks pretty much like a typical big day at rufus doesn't it, except for that dawn bump.

hein, you should get a waroo 3m i think, but i don't know how well it would fly fixed. they seem to require active sheeting to fly well, more so than normal kites. the 5 i think would be too much for a pulley bar on the biggest days.

people often dream about wave/swell in terms of how long they can pure surf it for, but i think this is kind of a misconception and is not the interesting part. first, it is kind of boring because it is so easy to plane in the first place for kiters, that it doesn't have the magic that it does for surfing. second, you can't really let the kite lines go slack for long on a big swell, so you still need to fly the kite to a degree. third, the swells are so steep and such short period, that you ride down them too fast. i think the more interesting approach ends up being how many aggressive turns you can do on the face of one swell. the goal being to use as much inertia to carry through the turns instead of kite, but the kite is always there to regain the speed. if there were no kite, i don't think the swells are steep enough to let you waste so much energy in big carves.

i agree with hein that shorter boards work better in the swell because they can do tighter radius turns and really stay on the face. also, i think slower/grabbier boards help for that as well, otherwise you can outrun it easily.

for the wave analogy, you can see a surfer ride right down the line on a fast wave and it looks cool, but a good wave kiter never just rides straight down the pocket, unless trying to get barreled, because it's so easy to do with a kite. for good wave kiters it is clearly all about the top turn. sometimes on big waves i just chicken out and ride down the face backside, but i always feel like those dont really count.

the powered/unpowered thing i think is more about whether the kite power whips you around in turns, or you primarily use inertia and the wave/swell. i used to always ride swell with the kite pretty static, and carve around, with the kite always in one spot. you can contol power by angle to the kite. that's the surfboard style. however, i saw Joe T one time on his mini TT board, and he provides an excellent demonstration of the super powered approach, which is very different and was very interesting to see. he is whipping the kite around hard on every carve.

maybe one more coast weekend coming up...

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

Good info Gabe... I will say the only thing I am not sure about is that the planning aspect of surfing isn't as interesting because you can plane using the kite. I learned after the wakesurf session the other day that there is a big difference between being towed (like behind a kite or a boat) and surfing type glide. The second the rope went slack and you were really riding the "wave" everything felt much different than when you were just being towed.

Being towed is fun no doubt, but when your gliding along with nothing more than the fast feel of water underneath the board as you "fall" down an endless water slope... toes tingle, ears get warm, and your heart goes all fluttery (or maybe its just me.) Very Happy

I know you can get that surf glide out of those swells, because I have even done it with my TT (if only for a second.) What I was wondering is how long can you get that feel with the swell pig or even a full on long board on big ass river swell.

gabe · Since 16 May 2005 475 Posts Obsessed

yes, for sure, you can get massive glide out of a surfboard. if you like that feeling then you should go for a swell board. even more glide often out of a skim--but it's almost too fast and you end up in the trough very quickly. my point is just that swell riding is much more than just gliding down the hill--it's about what you can do with that glide. and you'll rarely be able to just point it down the swell for 10 seconds because of the mismatch of board/swell speed and need to keep the kite flying. you need to do cut backs to stay on the wave unless the board is really slow. i actually have no real surf background, but it's kind of like the difference of small wave longboarding and performance shortboarding. the first appears to often be about going "whee, i'm riding a wave" while the second answers the question of "what's next." i think swell kiting is more similar to the second--partly because it needs to be, since you would end up in the trough if you just pointed.

the feeling of the boat wake will be more like a wave though than a swell. the feeling of a swell is just that gravity is pulling you, whereas a wave has a lot of energy of its own and feels more like it's pushing you. still, you can't just forget about the kite, or it will be bad. anyways, i was just commenting in response to all the talk when flat kites came out how you can totally depower them and just surf normally, which i don't really think is totally accurate. in most conditions you still need to take care of the kite over the long term. but yes, you can ride on a swell for a very very long time, primarily using inertia and the swell's pitch, with occasional power bursts from the kite.

now...a different story would be a really, really big ocean swell. like 25ft+ and sufficient steepness to really ride. that is a dream of mine to surf. but gorge swells are much different b/c they are so close together (the face is short).

i kited flat water last weekend for the first time in a couple months, and i just didn't know what to do. we are all pretty spoiled relative to most.

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

good stuff gabe Thumb's Up

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2025 Posts Windward

I think the longest I could ride river swell is,,,,,, oops done already

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2025 Posts Windward

I'm not trying to minimize the wind swell thing,But long ocean sea swell is another thing completely.That's why the first day of wind is the best (no wind swell).
For sure a kite that turns with every turn of the board is the the stuff KITE-SURFING is all about.

Kite-surfing (to me) means 1st you are a sailor second what can you do with it ,in the sail world gybing turns are the thing, a powered move with power applied all the time ,except for the moment when in irons(dead downwind) ,this gives a powered gybe with hard carving (head inches from massive waves) right next to the pitch, carving as hard as you can (to save your life).
One of the strangest things I know of is to PARK a kite and then ride the wave.Once you get used to the feeling of the other power source (ocean swell) and learn to use it through the turns .
Swell feels great but it makes me want to throw away the kite.(but not enough to paddle)
This sport can make you lazy I've heard called the Extreme sport for fat guys.Hybrids even worse (so easy)
Having a grab-bar for surfing is like those things around the toilet to help you get up!
JUST SAY NO TO THE DINGLE-DANGLE.Don't be decieved watching vids of pros' in MUSHBERGERS with kite in park that SELLS because most of the world has no long ocean swell and kite in onshore shore-break.
We live in one of the longest fetches in the world building some of the most reliable and cleanest surf anywhere and small kite wind ,which is absloutly nessesary to kite-surf in big surf , a fast turning high wind small kite machine is needed ,,,to rip. and some foot-straps
,IMHO

gabe · Since 16 May 2005 475 Posts Obsessed

hmm, so this isn't worthy?

genek · Since 21 Jul 2006 2165 Posts East Po KGB

Damn, Gabe, that's a sick picture. You know who the rider is? Is that what'll be happening at Manzo today?

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2025 Posts Windward

Who's to say what's worthy. Rolling Eyes

I'm just thinking that if you could do it with just a surfboard why not ?Then feeling the wave power Truly,(very Zen)

BUUUT if you have a kite why not put it to use ?
That is surfable wave for sure and tons of fun!!

Just trying to open some minds that there are other ways to kite-surf ,,if you have the conditions ,,we do, and it looks they do in Indochina
We have some Zen moments in kiting as well,
like when you swing your 5.0 and you dig in your toes to race to the top of a monster thats grinding everything to a pulp right behind you and feel the kite give you more power and you dig even harder to find the wave over you and kite sucking you out of the jaws,
only to repeat Twisted Evil

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6548 Posts Couve / Hood Site Lackey

two styles for sure, each relevant I think.

I like the surfing with a grab bar line... Very Happy

Read that Elliot Leboe is going to release a surf video this year. I think this will be the first big set of surf footage since the bow invasion last year.

Should be interesting to see...

gabe · Since 16 May 2005 475 Posts Obsessed

that is felix pivec in indonesia. here is another good one in the critical section. here is a good video of that indonesia wave. crazy wave, how it gets so vertical and kind of stalls there for a bit. i don't think you could get in that position in most waves. http://www.kiteforum.tv/index.php?option=com_videos&task=download&id=634&Itemid=31

Mocean · Since 21 Sep 2005 343 Posts Newport Obsessed

All surfing is great - whether its with kite, sail, tow-in, or just board. And its all relative and always different. A 20-second period swell hitting a point break or Indonesian reef will produce an experience like no other, however I've gorged myself in the 80's riding single windswells from one side of the river at Rufus to the other, or flicked my board down a little piece of chop just to get that extra little boost. Look at all the inventing and improvising the Maui guys did back in the early 90's - all for the sake of riding waves. Many ways to do it, and so many variations. If it feels good....

With the last of the seasons north winds hitting the coast right now, there'll be some good ones to get here, and Blowhard you'll probably do good tomorrow. We're so lucky to have all we've got here!

jahmbi · Fri Sep 22, 06 10:22 pm

gabe · Since 16 May 2005 475 Posts Obsessed

troll, we have been through this before. please don't unleash such violence on me. badass photos huh?

skydiveblake · Since 28 Jun 2006 63 Posts San Diego

Yo Jambhi, on the left side of your keyboard is a button that says 'capslock' on it in tiny letters. Pushing it once will enable you to type in what we in science call lower case. It's smaller, easier on the eye, makes it appear (in the forum-psychological-sense) that you aren't screaming in anger, and generally is less annoying.

I think you should try it. It's a neat trick. Wink

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2025 Posts Windward

this is not about this VS> that ,,it's about another way ,like tow in surf but don't let go ,use the power to go even faster and get more turns ,it's all great fun ,
BUUUT to go into the swell that surfers wish they could ride but can't paddle into that's what i'm refering to
having the windsurfers and the surfers sitting on the beach WATCHING
While we EAT thier lunch,
It just seems odd that all the kiting everybody is pimping lately relates to stuff thats already been done.
But then it goes in cycles ,I guess we tend to forget what was the thing a few yrs. ago so we can all do it again and again ,
I too have poled the Rufus swell and the Rosey swell and had a lot of fun and if I lived there I would be all over it ,tons of fun .
I just say put that kite to work , Rolling Eyes

and yes Steve the day yesterday was EPIC ,looks good today but some easterly (gustier) today ,

I say bros come on down there is not much time left

registered · Since 12 Jul 2005 1319 Posts tsunami Sandbagger

wow those are some great slashing top turns , Where are the shots of thhe powered bottom turns that linked them, or wait those shots more than likely are a single power turn event and took all day to get 5 of them. Laughing

just kidding ,I suck and wish I was having fun up there on river swell, instead of harvestin' the back forty of corn. GO Huskers. Twisted Evil