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Post new topic   Reply to topic    Northwest Kiteboarding -> Gorge / Portland / Oregon Coast
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Since 17 May 2005
108 Posts
Bend Oregon

PostSun Feb 01, 09 7:01 am    SNOWKITING IS NOW ILLEGAL WITHIN THE WILDERNESS! Reply with quote

Within one week after this news article came out in the Bend Bulletin about snowkiting in the Bend area.

The BKC started receiving emails from activists all the way from Santa Cruz California telling us to "Stay out of the Wilderness". We then found this post on the Wild Wilderness Website" from the same people trying to shutdown Dutchman Flats and Tumamlo mountain to all snowmobiles.

After hours of riding and having one of our best sessions ever yesterday with a steady NW wind at at around 15mph (Unbelievable how this place works on any wind direction). Chris Sabo from the Forest Service drove up on his snowmobile and polity said " BOYS I AM SORRY TO INFORM YOU THAT WE GOT THE CALL YESTERDAY AND SNOWKITING IS NOW ILLEGAL WITHIN THE WILDERNESS BOUNDARY.

We are dumbfounded and cant believe we just lost our local best and only spot to snowkite. We new is was coming but thought at least we would have a chance to voice an opinion or prove our point. But no it's over.

Please send comments and advice to

Tim Carlson

Thanks and it was unbelievable while it lasted.

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Since 21 Mar 2006
1279 Posts
Dude, where's my Bus?
Otto Mann

PostSun Feb 01, 09 7:24 am     Reply with quote

That's F*&(*ED!!!

talk about my worst fears being reality, What can we do to help change the F.S. look on wilderness travel?

I'm sorry to hear that such a great area is now closed. That will surely mean the same conlusion in other area's of the country. As snowkiting gains popularity there must be some way we can work together and keep some of there great locations accessable.

So tim, Does this shut down your snowkiting as a whole? or have you guys explored area's outside of the boundry?

Much respect,

I stretch my wings and pull the strings

Last edited by Sol-flyer on Sun Feb 01, 09 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Since 13 Mar 2005
1219 Posts

PostSun Feb 01, 09 7:39 am     Reply with quote

Sorry to hear this Tim.

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Since 13 Jan 2009
6 Posts

PostSun Feb 01, 09 7:53 am    Same Thing Happened to BaseJumpers :( FAIR ACCESS NOW! Reply with quote

So deeply disappointing and even more sadly not that surprising.

I come from a background of basejumping – (though I only made legal jumps)

We have been denied fair, reasonable and responsible access to the backcountry for parachuting – a relatively safe and proven outdoor pursuit.

Since moving to Portland this summer – I have taken up kiting and this winter snowboarding – the gross danger on many of the park features is radically higher than a properly trained backcountry parachutist – in an appropriate environment – with the right gear.

Also the associated risks of Hunting are at least as great. (not against guns- grew up in a Force Recon Marine Corps home – don’t carry one ether)

How it went down with base is a long story – perhaps we can get NickDG - a fellow New Yorker and basejumper – who is also a former Marine and has an excellent historical knowledge of the US Parks and their banning of parachuting –to post on our forum – I will invite him to do so.

The basic event was the ‘flat bed 12’ in the 80’s – about 30 years ago – Yosemite allowed jumping off their 3000 foot perfection El Capitan – the deal was hike up – of course within a few months of legal jumping – basejumpers where using a flatbed truck to drive to the top on a fire road – this was the official reason for the regulation.
However other factors are at play:

1.) The lack of a base organization – no formal internal standards – I love this and think it is cool – but if you want to come to the Parks and assure them that we have out Sh*t together – we have to have some sort of standard in training – but base like kites is about freedom – so herding cats – we don’t want to be a part of any club etc…

2.) General perception of base(kite) culture as also involing sex and drugs or disregard for god, country and life. – This is Reed colleges issue – despite being a Harvard level school – people will look past the vast output of military officers, PhD’s and MD’s form reed and see only their 60’s fantasy of sex ,drugs and rock and roll.

3.) The lack of Unity – the Paragliders will not stand with the basejumpers fearing losing there only toe-hold on access – the hang-gliders have completely abounded base – so have rock climbers – even though many of their best athletes cross-over (Dean Porter , Hank Carol etc.)

so to RE-legalize KITES – remember we are not legalizing it – we are RELEGALIZING it)

we need to combat the three thing we learned in base

1.) Clear standards of training developed – by us, for us, with us, enforced by us – our own legit license system – so we can show the feds we are professional and that no one who is not qualified will be out there – and that we all have insurance as a group for rescue etc.

2.) Kiting culture promoted as healthy and life-positive – environment and spiritual – it is all of that – it is a life wish and needs the same respect as hiking or rock jocking or skiing

3.) UNITY – come on basejumpers and paragliders and kiters – lets get together on the idea of RESPONSIBLE, FAIR ACCESS for all tax paying, hard working Americans (and our visiting French buddies to lol)

Last edited by Joe_Free on Sun Feb 01, 09 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Since 12 Jul 2005
1319 Posts

PostSun Feb 01, 09 7:53 am     Reply with quote

No surprize once you start commercializing a spot there will always be some protest. Wink

The wilderness starts where the sleds stop so snowkiting is allowed on moon mtn and the area below.

I am interested to find out who exactly made the judgement and if it is a national call.

So the hole in the ground we visit south is a no go to.

we have been trying to figure Steens as well it looks like the best thing ever.

If you guys didn't fly those kites with pulleys everywhere they would basically be no mechenised aspect technically. only C kites should be allowed is how I have always interpreted the signs.
Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

we were scoping the south ridge of broken top from the finger of access on the opposite side of ball butte , it looks amazing. And once there , a ways from the boundry kites may be invisible at that distance.

Well I am not sure why anyone would dislike kiting in these areas.. there are some selfish sons of bitches out there and at this point they just made the first strike against your feedoms(FREEDOMS) to protect a volcanic area.

If we find some good spots maybe the Associated press shouln't be involved.

Treehuggers probably didn't appreciate the beer cans and kites advertised to draw more people .

I would say they should out law skiis with binding for sure in the wilderness as well if thats the way the rulers want to play..

Do you suppose the mass media and this end have a correlation???

Food for thought. Idea Idea

Time to start making some calls and determining if this is just one confused government(our) employee confused or if this is really the new translation nationally.

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Since 13 Jan 2006
1433 Posts

XTreme Poster

PostSun Feb 01, 09 7:58 am     Reply with quote

S. Greg Walden may be a good start. His son kites, he is a good guy, and responds to all of my concerns, even though he knows I am a die-hard democrat.


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Since 09 Jan 2006
186 Posts
Hood River, Oregon

PostSun Feb 01, 09 8:00 am     Reply with quote

After talking with Chris Sabo about it his advice was to start contacting local officials and representatives and write letters on the matter. We will probably need to get petitions and such and gather historical information re: sailing and how native cultures have used it, and the backing of other environmental groups who support wind travel. He mentioned that it is coming from a federal level and that the entire US will be affected by it. With all things "government" it will be a long battle. Any information and support via letters will be great so just let us know. Interesting point is that the wilderness sign clearly says "no mechanized equipment beyond this point" so I find it interesting that tele skis are somehow ok and there are more mechanical parts in a tele ski than in any kite.

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Since 07 Jan 2008
226 Posts

PostSun Feb 01, 09 8:08 am     Reply with quote

signs ,signs, everywhere signs,!!!!!
you know the rest!!
we gotta stop this madness!!!


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Since 13 Jan 2009
6 Posts

PostSun Feb 01, 09 8:42 am    Propaganda - Wild Wilderness Reply with quote

So watching their first selected video – the false analogy, the bullsh*t – is the urban setting – they show a bleak, flat snowscape – with Large high-rise buildings and cars driving by – and the crowd of the race

It tricks the viewer into thinking that snow kiting is grey urban buildings, crowds and cars on ice – not at all the spiritual solitude that the Bend Boyz must experience.

The second video is opened with a snowplow, a train – all scary MACHINES coming to dominate nature – again nothing to do with flying kites.

Have to go play in the snow, so I only watched a bit

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Since 11 Feb 2006
4793 Posts

PostSun Feb 01, 09 9:00 am     Reply with quote

that sucks so bad

the first video on the Wilderness website to demostrate snowkiting:

not sure that 100 Russian dudes terrorizing a frozen lake behind their mega commie-bloc apartments captures the typical impact on the wilderness area

Go Deep!

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Since 22 Jun 2006
451 Posts

PostSun Feb 01, 09 9:02 am     Reply with quote

I will be interested to learn where the authority for this "ban" originated. I would guess that the source of the "call" was from an individual or small group of employees, at some level in the "agency" (National Forest Service or National Park Service)... and that the "ban" is an interpretation of the 'mechanized vechicle' clause in some rule/regulation, at this level of the bureaucracy. I doubt that there is anything in writing that specifically lists 'snow kiteboarding' as a banned form of recreation.

I am sure someone with more governmental knowledge that I, will post the chain of authority of this 'call', that the NFS ranger got. I think that both the NFS and National Park service are administrative agencies, and that the appointments occur through the Executive branch of government. I think that each agency must promulgate its own rules and regulations, which can have the force of law, with civil and criminal penalties, but that these entities are different from statutes.

I would guess that if this 'call' was an all encompassing ban of snow kiting from all federal wilderness areas, then the call would have to have come from the President, who as the head of the Executive branch, would have oversight over both the NFS and NPS.

At this point, I would not jump to any conclusions until something in writing is found in a federal agency rule or regulation, or in a statute.

The 'call' the ranger was referring to could have been related to a rule intended to prevent anything that might startle animals like deer or elk, causing them to burn up their winter fat reserves. A kite could do that. It could also have been related to the fact that NFS rescue personnel have been cut back, and would not be able to fulfill their duty to rescue injured "high-risk" recreationalists.

Lets do some research.

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Since 09 Jan 2006
186 Posts
Hood River, Oregon

PostSun Feb 01, 09 9:23 am     Reply with quote

Look at the latest stream of comments and please add thoughtful, non-aggressive comments to this forum as it has momentum and seems like we have some people on our side so keep it going so we can educate and help keep it.

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Since 26 Dec 2005
2006 Posts


PostSun Feb 01, 09 9:25 am     Reply with quote

no surpise here,,

When we were at that location 3 yrs. ago
a Forest Circus dude came scootin right up and said " no way"
when we cried he called someone who knew less than he did and said ok
this time.
I called around and the response was the same from all districts I called
"no way"especially in the Steens
The same will happen at Crater Lake National Park if there is a lot use and the ensuing
blogs to support thier evidence
the dude that runs Diamond Lake Lodge was pretty pissy about us being in the park (and I'm sure one call from him and that locaton is a goner).

Kiting in the wilderness will probably never fly
but it never hurts to try to change thier minds

"Don't ask ,Don't tell"
should be your mantra if your'e serious about snow kiting in the wilderness.
Last I heard it was a$5000.00 fine and confiscaton of all your gear.

Just a few yrs. ago a fence was erected in front of Floras lake preventing access to the ocean for the sake of the Snowy Plover
I could see someone getting on thier highhorse about kites down there as well
and making a fuss about it and for sure the Plovers will be protected.

While pics and the publicity that "keep the stoke up" are fun
you could be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

just keepin my shit on the downlow.

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Since 14 Apr 2005
1417 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster

PostSun Feb 01, 09 9:47 am     Reply with quote

fucken tree huggers, im all for helping the environment but what are you really destroying/endangering by going kiting in a forest? Plus its not like you are going to harm any trees as you cant really kite close to them. Although now you guys can all go regular snowboarding more often which is a lot more fun!!

Sorry to hear of the spot loss tho, hope you get it back.

I heart dangling

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Since 20 Jun 2005
3635 Posts
I need my fix because I'm a

PostSun Feb 01, 09 9:55 am     Reply with quote

Stupid.... Evil or Very Mad

If you want support, go to the Blue Ribbon coalition. They are a very organized and powerful group. They have gotten access back over the years.

The BlueRibbon Coalition is a national non-profit organization dedicated to preserving responsible recreational access to public lands and waters. We want to keep your land open for use, whether you recreate on a mountain bike, snowmobile, motorcycle, personal watercraft, ATV, four-wheeler, horse, or your hiking boots.

Today, the BlueRibbon Coalition is a respected national recreation group that represents over 10,000 individual members and 1,200 organization and business members, for a combined total of over 600,000 recreationists nationwide.

If you would like us to keep you informed of the latest recreational access issues and ways you can help prevent land closure, sign up to receive our email Action Alerts.

Cleverly disguised as an adult...

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Since 27 Feb 2005
6543 Posts
Couve / Hood
Site Lackey

PostSun Feb 01, 09 10:08 am     Reply with quote

MW wrote:
Look at the latest stream of comments and please add thoughtful, non-aggressive comments to this forum as it has momentum and seems like we have some people on our side so keep it going so we can educate and help keep it.

Yeah looks like even one of the original drafters of the bill commented on our side...

Like Matt said, maybe some thoughtful comments on that blog would help the situation. Please be respectful though we don't want to make it worse.

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Since 11 Jul 2007
713 Posts
city of angels

PostSun Feb 01, 09 10:32 am     Reply with quote

f#uck. my heart is breaking this is aweful.
I think some of these points have been made, but:
we need to not post pics of new trips (only pics of when it was LEGAL).
Organize. The truth is we probably have lots in common with and similarly minded folks. We need to show that snowkiting is a tame and responsible mode of travel.
I would be very willing to do some web work to help build a public face to an organized project. We could put together an online presentation of our stance, and an online petition. but it sounds like the goals need to be outlined first.

The mechanized argument is BS- climbing equipment is 100x as mechanized as snowkiting equipment.

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