Professional Photographer advice

Mark · Tue Jan 24, 06 5:30 pm **Professional Photographer advice**

Hey all you pro photographers,
I am looking for some advice. I am going to step up to a Canon rebel xt and would like advice on lenses. I am looking at the 70-200 l glass with IS. Also the 100-400 l glass with IS. The 70-200 is a f2.8 the 100-400 is a f4.5.

I am interested in the camera and setup for my trip to Africa. I also want to shoot kiting, my sons football ect.

Is the f4.5 100-400 to slow for action shots?
What about getting a doubler for the 70-200?

What lens package do u recommend?
thanks in advance
Mark

bandito · Since 07 May 2005 178 Posts Photographer

I would go with the Canon 70-200 2.8 over the 100-400. The 100-400 is slow at the 400 end at 5.6. The Rebel is not the fastest autofocus in the Canon line so the more light falling on the sensor the better. My vote is for the 70-200 2.8.

Good luck,
Bandito

PS- any Canon L glass is a good investment.

Mark · Tue Jan 24, 06 6:29 pm

Bandito
thanks for the quick response! In your opinion, am I better to step up and get the 20D?

Also I see some canon lens's are imported and some are USA. What is the difference? Specs all look the same. The imported ones are usually 100-200 cheaper.

tacksharp · Since 06 Dec 2005 91 Posts The Hood Photographer

You will be much better off with the 20D, or actually I would step up to the Canon 5D if you have the money. It's quite a bit more rugged, and as a full frame sensor at 12.8 megapixels (I think that's right, you'll have to double check the exact megs). I agree with the 70-200 2.8 IS lens choice. It is the best all around lens. It was the first lens I ever bought and it will never leave my camera bag. I would NOT recommend the doubler. The Canon 2x still really degrades the image quality. The Canon 1.4x extender is golden though, and I highly recommend that as an addition.

tacksharp · Since 06 Dec 2005 91 Posts The Hood Photographer

ohh..and only by U.S. lenses..should you need any help with warranty, repair, etc., it is so worth the extra money.

Mark · Wed Jan 25, 06 10:03 am

Tacksharp
Thanks for your valuable insight. Not sure I can spring for the 5d but I will look long and hard at the 20d. Interesting that the 1.4 is golden but the 2 is bad. Is that due to lens construction or a diminishing returns thing?
What other lens do u suggest to compliment the 70-200? assume that I will only get one other lens right now.

thanks again
Mark

azazello · Since 11 Jun 2005 60 Posts Seattle

[coming from a non-pro nikon user :O]

some practical aspects: rebel is quite a bit smaller than 20D, and it is actually small enough to be used as a walk-around camera with a small lens. so 20D is not all roses.

full frame is nice but consider the expence of not only the body, but your inability to use digital-only lenses that are quite smaller and cheaper than comparable full-frame. also a 200mm lens is 300mm on an APS sensor, although not sure if it's actually equivalent if you just crop full-frame image.

IS is almost useless for action shots, I wouldn't pay for it. you want bright lens and a camera that gives good quality at higher ISO.

one more thing: i got a nikon 80-200 f/2.8 off craigslist for $380. i'm sure similar deals can be had on canon lenses. it's actually cheap enough for me to not pamper it and just take anywhere, which i definitely wouldn't do if i paid anywhere close to full retail.

and yeah oh yeah, having that big pice of glass changes the way you think about what's possible with the camera, so prepare to have some real fun with this sort of toy.

tacksharp · Since 06 Dec 2005 91 Posts The Hood Photographer

I have to seriously disagree with our fellow Nikon poster. I have owned every body from a Rebel digi through the Canon 1D Mark II, and have shot extensively on a Canon 1Ds Mark II. If you are taking a camera anywhere around a sandy beach, with rocks, water, etc., you want a rugged body that is sealed. The 20D is absolutely the way to go. The Rebel is very light - with a 70-200 on the front it feels unbalanced. Get the 20D with the vertical grip attachment. It will be a very sweet set up and great feel. Also, the Rebel (as far as I know) does not have AF servo for tracking action - A HUGE benefit when shooting water sports. Also, when the wind is blowing 30 on a beach, I don't care if you are shooting at 1/6000 of a second, you will get shake if you hit the shutter when a gust comes by. I will say that at times the IS is not optimal when panning etc, but overall it is a must have. I know -- I own a 70-200 with and without the IS..I will shoot the IS anytime. Are you looking for another long lens or a shorter lens? Most of my work is done with a very wide angle 16-35mm f/2.8 (spendy piece of glass, but you've seen the results).
And the sensor in the Rebel isn't up to snuff. If you are looking for a fast, sports camera, I would find a good used Canon 1D. Yes, it is only rated at just over 4.5 megapixels, but it has an enhanced chip. Look at my post for the photo competition, some of the shots where taken on the 1d, and others on the 1d Mark II (double the resolution) and i"ll bet no one can tell the difference. I have 13x19 prints off of BOTH cameras and I've had people try to see the difference and they can't. That being said, the newer cameras are much better at higher ISO, which is where the 1D suffers, but it is pro body, completely sealed and shoots 8 frames a second. They can be picked up really cheap now. When I bought mine new it was a 5k camera. Just my two cents.

azazello · Since 11 Jun 2005 60 Posts Seattle

Isn't it that all servos are actually sitting in the lens itself on big-ass lenses? (which doesn't invalidate the point that 20D will focus better than rebel, of course, and 1D will be much better)

I wouldn't argue that IS is better than no IS, but we're talking limited funds here. Will 20D and a long non-IS lens give better chances of producing worthy shots than a rebel with IS lens? Maybe I simply didn't figure out how to use the VR lenses I did try..

As to sealing - those bodies are practically disposable in a couple years, and looking at what my D70 wenth through so far I'd say that sealing doesn't matter much (hey, at some point I even had it in my kite bag along with kites - in its own padded bag, but it still got plenty of sand on). But then again I'm no pro.

Oh yea, and of course I sprayed my own D70 too:

tacksharp · Since 06 Dec 2005 91 Posts The Hood Photographer

As for Canon, the servo is a function of the camera body and the lens. Hence, the Canon ultrasonic lens' are so fast. The motor in the lens reacts with the camera. The AF Servo and AF one-shot mode are set in the camera. I don't believe the Rebel offers an AF servo mode. The lens is capable of producing either mode. Yeah..you are right about the bodies being nearly disposable at the rate of current technology..lol..being a pro I'm forced to have the latest and greatest to stay competative and current for my clients. It sucks. It's worse than buying a car. I pre-ordered the Mark II for nearly 6 grand, and less than two months later I saw it dropping like a rock. In fact by the time I got it you could find it for 5 grand. Also, think about batteries (you will want at least 2, I recommend 3) and cards (a 1gb minimum Lexar with the fastest write speed you can find). Overall, put your money into your glass. Lenses might change to better suit digital, but for now, the L series glass from Canon is unreal. I plan on keeping mine for a lifetime.

bandito · Since 07 May 2005 178 Posts Photographer

If you don't need the latest and greatest your best bet would be to look for a used 1D body. You should be able to get one for under a grand and you will have one hell of a camera. I started my digital body collection with the 10D, 20D and now the 1D markII and have also used a 1D for a couple of weeks. The autofocus on the 10D is slow and often misses the target unless shooting in very bright light and a high contrast subject. The 20D is not a bad choice in that it is better with high ISO noise and also does have a faster more percise autofocus. The 1D would be the second best body here with everything being great, but the ISO noise can be a problem and the lower mega pixels. If I where just starting out and shot mostly outdoors I would go with the 1D and the 70-200 and you will never regret your purchase. The 1D will always make a great backup body if you decide you need something better in the future.
Bandito

azazello · Since 11 Jun 2005 60 Posts Seattle

Ah, "AF Servo" is canon-speak for continuous (predictive) autofocus. Of course 350D has it, works reasonably well. I have no idea if it's better than in 20D, haven't used that one. My understanding is that pro gear is way better in this area than prosumer stuff. But, I've seen what my D70 can do in really poor light with good glass, and I'm not too worried about focusing with kitesurfers in bright sunlight. I think that for amateur use buying pro gear at close to MSRP prices is way out of line, and lots of amateurs are falling for pro opinions when they shoudn't. For example, for a non-pro it's quite likely that size really does matter. If you're going kitesurfing and oh maybe getting some nice shots if it plays out, you'll be pissed at carrying a big pack with photo gear and maybe getting some if it stolen/damaged/etc. So I say if you're no pro, buy used lenses and the cheapest, smallest body you can live with, and just go out and make some shots. Pentax stuff is pretty attractive if you subscribe to this ideology actually.

Basically, my point is that if one's having questions as to what he/she needs as far as gear goes, it will be more effective to get cheaper stuff and go out experiment with it, and only then go get something else if you realize that what you have is limited in ways you're not comfortable with.

As for motors, the fact that there are USM and non-USM lenses tells that the drive itself is in the lens. Same thing with Nikon stuff - there are cheaper lenses that are driven from the camera, but good fast ones have drive mechanics and motor built in.

Mark · Thu Jan 26, 06 8:18 am

Thanks for all the advice guys. This is invaluable info. Where does one look for used camera gear? Craigs list? How much cheaper is it? If its not really cheap I would rather get new and not have issues.

Do any of u pros have cameras u are ready to sell to get the latest and greatest?
Mark

EdG · Since 19 Dec 2005 424 Posts Just a Kook that's Obsessed

I have been shooting a 80-200 2.8 (Nikon) for a few years now and I like everything but its weight. I'm looking into a doubler' and last time I looked into them, they only cut the F to 5.6. I would go with the 80-200.

Check out Pro Photo Supply since they have new and a good supply of lens. One of the sales women there even know a little about kiting and has been seen at Salvie.

ED

bandito · Since 07 May 2005 178 Posts Photographer

Used gear:

Pro Photo in Portland, OR
or on the web at
http://www.fredmiranda.com/
this is a great place to find good used gear from good folks.
Bandito

Mark · Sat Jan 28, 06 11:02 am

Ok I have decided on a D-20 and a 70-200 is l lens. What smaller lens would you guys suggest to round out my gear.
thanks again for all your insight.
Mark

bandito · Since 07 May 2005 178 Posts Photographer

Sigma 20mm 1.8 for a prime or Canon 17-40mm for the zoom. The Sigma is cheap, but a great lens.
Bandito