SNOWKITING IS NOW ILLEGAL WITHIN THE WILDERNESS!

Sasquatch · Since 09 Mar 2005 2088 Posts PNW Bigfoot

BUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Evil or Very Mad

pdxmonkeyboy · Sun Feb 01, 09 10:52 am

Welcome wilderness snowkiters, you have no entered the delicate arena of public land use policy. Things happen slowly in this arena and you have to be strategic about how you handle matters. Obviously, there is some grey area here in terms of how the wilderness act is interpreted.

As others have stated, the LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO is start posting agro threads and name calling (this means you Ian). Your not going to be able to simply call someone and they are going to say OK, have at it. I'm probably telling you what you already know but the process looks something like this.

1. download a copy of the wilderness act.
2. google other activities that have been prohibited.
3. Designate ONE person to contact the forest service manager.
4. Ask to sit down face to face with him and go over the reasons for the decision and get an overview of the comments that they have recieved.
5. You can make a FOI request to get a copy of all public comments that they recieved.
6. Review all the material and start to formulate our case from there.

Obviously, there are people that don't want to see people snowkite in these places. From the posts, they are trying to make the case that it is flying, which it is not. You could make the case the CC and telemark skies are more mechanized than kites are. I think you have to emphasize that you are not some band of reckless teenagers that want to run roughshod over wilderness areas. There are many snowkiters that simple enjoy the great outdoors and expansive wild spaces, it is not your intent to change the character of the wilderness area and the wilderness act was NOT created to prevent people from accessing and enjoying the benefits of wilderness. You need to meet with these other groups and discuss your opinions in a constructive manner and be prepared for a long process.

I would be more than happy to help collect signatures if a petition gets started..that is, after you've made some contacts and a good petition document has been drafted.

Sorry to hear it guys. But fear not, all hope is not lost.

blowhard · Since 26 Dec 2005 2026 Posts Windward

Yardsale · Since 29 Mar 2005 387 Posts Portlanastan Obsessed

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

If you're on this forum, I'd encourage you to delete your comment on ww.org that begins "just wondering if this"ORGANIZATION!? had anythin to do w the blatent disregaurd of the naturall and abundant source of wind power in the wilderness ereas we have accesed?..."
and becomes more inflammatory and accusatory...
I'm not trying to be a dick to you. I know you're upset. but those comments do more harm then good. we need to paint ourselves as polite and respectful wilderness advocates.

DROCK999 · Since 31 May 2007 852 Posts Left Coast Opinionated

PETITION IT. keep kiting anyway and if they ticket you take it to court. there's no possible scientific research that could prove that you guys are harming anything.

EdG · Since 19 Dec 2005 425 Posts Just a Kook that's Obsessed

pjc · Since 06 Mar 2005 649 Posts Addicted

Bump -

What looks like the same article was reprinted in the Register-Guard today (Eugene's paper)

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/sports/outdoors/6523701-44/story.csp

No mention of recent developments (the RG's crack reporting team doing it's usual bang-up job).

One thing occurs to me - if there is any concern about access whatsoever, and a reporter asks you to summarize kiting, don't use motorcycle/chair-lift/motorboat analogies. I think making comparisons to sailing is not only more accurate but less likely to excite the eco-nazis.

(20-20 hindsight, obviously, not trying to slag).

pdxmonkeyboy · Tue Feb 17, 09 11:03 am

Moto · Since 03 Sep 2006 2698 Posts Still a gojo pimp! Moto Mouth

Interesting analogy monkey - but you forgot to mention the bit about pilaging from local orphanages Shocked

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

Mark · Tue Feb 17, 09 1:21 pm

Kyle,
Your point is well taken. The problem is we have now been "cast out"and are banned from the wilderness. Organization of a new group takes time and money. Time can be a very precious thing when setting precedent. Joining a group that has lobbyists, lawyers, and a lot of money seems to make sense. They don't just represent motor sports. They are for ALL ACCESS.

We could do both....

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted

i hear what you're saying Mark. Maybe it is the best move, but i don't think so. But I think that joining the all access movement is essentially getting all the baggage of sports that will never get access. And maybe never should considering the wording and implied intent of the wilderness act.
If people are for all access, that's cool by me. But i think the best interest of snowkiters will be represented by a new group devoted solely to them. If you're a snowkiter for 'all access', i'd encourage you to join both groups.
Also remember we have NOT been cast out yet. As far as we know it is only illegal in certain wilderness areas in bend. I have since kited in wilderness areas and spoken with rangers who had no problem with snowkiting. plus there's no indication that other states will follow this. AND states like MT, for example, are very reluctant to accept and enforce new laws with their libertarian attitudes.
remember snowkiting has been legal for a decade and still is in in 99.99% of wilderness lands. we have precedence on our side, many sports do not. we are in a unique position and we need to capitalize on it.

mit_noslrac · Since 17 May 2005 108 Posts Bend Oregon Stoked

Aaron Sales is editing the petition wording and will send out the petition link for everyone to sign when it is complete and approved.

Had a long conversation with the Forest Service yesterday after they received our letter of concern. Chris Sabo said he did receive it and is sending it up the chain of command. He said that this is a national issue not local and they are making the decision clear up in Washington D.C. He said it will be a year or so before he will start issuing tickets or that it becomes officially illegal. There will be a certain amount of time for public comment.

Below is what the reporter from the Oregonian showed me that he got from Chris Sabo from the Forest Service. Except the one he showed me was edited to say no snowkites .

From the Forest Service Manual 2320.5.3

http://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsm/2300/2320.doc#_Toc157225531

3. Mechanical Transport. Any contrivance for moving people or material in or over land, water, or air, having moving parts, that provides a mechanical advantage to the user, and that is powered by a living or nonliving power source. This includes, but is not limited to, sailboats, hang gliders, parachutes, bicycles, game carriers, carts, and wagons. It does not include wheelchairs when used as necessary medical appliances. It also does not include skis, snowshoes, rafts, canoes, sleds, travois, or similar primitive devices without moving parts.

eli_anderson · Since 04 Jun 2007 507 Posts Addicted

will snowkiting still be cool when it isn't illegal?

kyle.vh · Since 11 Jul 2007 713 Posts city of angels Addicted