Torch vs. Cult? For a freestyle rider in light wind!

nicksmith · Since 11 Dec 2007 5 Posts New Member

What up!

My name is nick, -- I'm an instructor with Urban Surf, up here in Seattle.

I've been riding Naish for years, love the gear and don't plan on changing any time soon.

So here is the big question -- Bambam, I don't know you man, but would love to hear your input -- and consider that I've been living in Brasil in the winters and training freestyle on my torches for the past three years:

I'll be moving down to san diego in the next few months and I need a quiver that is going to provide the best size-to-speed-and-grunt ratio in light winds.

Is the 13.5m cult going to be a better light wind kite for FREESTYLE, than say the 14m torch? (My 16m Torch III was great powered up but was a freaking bear in the light winds up at the Jetty. Super slow and heavy. The biggest torch I'll buy from here on out is a 14)

That being said, how will the Cults 7.5 and 10.5 do freestyle compared to the '08 Torches?

And will there be a difference in wave riding hooked and unhooked?

-- I'd rather not mix up my quiver, you know, all Torches or all Cults. But am open to maybe an 8 and 12 Torch IIII's and a 13.5 Cult

Ideas?!

Thanks! Peace!

Mark · Wed Dec 12, 07 8:10 am

Nick,
First off you can't go to wrong either way.

I started out on the Torch's and loved them. That being said I have been playing with the Cult as of late. Due to the gusty winds in the gorge I love the increased range of the SLE kites. I use to be on a 14 torch when others (lighter people) were on 12 C kites. When I made the jump to the SLE kites I flew 9m when others were on 12 C kites. My old quiver was 9m,14, 18 torches. My SLE quiver is 7.5,9,12. I use the 9m almost all the time.
I find the Cult to have great low end and incredible depower. Its a great cross over kite...

Hope that helps.

bambam · Since 15 Mar 2005 760 Posts Hood River Photographer

Hey Nick,

Say hello to Robin, Jeffro, and Sibborn for me...

Okay, hmmm... First off, why the hell are you moving to San Diego? So much for even kiting. You do realize how light and variable the wind actually is down there? When you get there, I can hook you up with Blake Robinson who is the manager out at Sky Dive San Diego. Much more reliable fun. If your down in San Diego by January 17th, I will be in town to jump for three days. There is also awesome paragliding at Torrey Pines.

Back to your dilemma. For freestyle, the Torch is still the ultimate kite. Kevin Langree luvs riding the Cult, but when push comes to shove... it is the Torch he rides for serious training and competition. I totally agree that the 14m Torch is as large as I would ever go.

In regards to the 08 SLE's, the Cult is a much better kite for what your looking for as compared to the Helix. Unfortunately it is still a big kite and although a decent turner in the 13.5, it still does not turn as well as the Torch. The problem being that if you were on a 14m Torch and I was on a 13.5 Cult... you'ed be on the beach while I was kiting. The Cult will work fine as a freestyle kite and being in San Diego you going to get even less wind the Jetty. So, I would agree that your mixed quiver choice would work if you were only going to focus on freestyle. Personally I think that being so close to the Pacific side of Baja and most excellent wave spots that I won't mention in print, that you would be crazy to not go with a full Cult quiver. The Cults will work absolutely fine for freestlye, especially with the easy adjustability of the smart loop. This adjustability makes the Cult kick butt in the waves and work fine unhooked. The tiny loss of initial pop will be overshadowed by the smile on your face when your ripping in the line in San...somewhere... The Cults are really that much better of an all around kite... especially the 7.5m through 10.5m sizes.

My .02 cents...

Bam

PS. Here is an image of our freestyle test, Cyril Coste, here on Maui. The Cults are what he rides most and they sure don't seem to hold him back.

sschott · Since 10 Nov 2007 5 Posts New Member

Bam - what about the Alliance kites? I am in the same dilema as Nick - love the Torches but am looking for a hybrid that will deliver the same unhooked performance!

bambam · Since 15 Mar 2005 760 Posts Hood River Photographer

Hmmm, I have not flown the Alliance enough to really get specific with any comments. Good kite, but I found that I just gravitated to the smooth all around goodness of the Cult.

Jon

wylieflyote · Wed Dec 12, 07 8:52 pm

Hi Nick!!!
Thanks for getting me started in this addiction.
Nick is one of the best instructors out there!

Kip

PS, Did you happen to read the review of kite life in SD before you made your decision to live there?

nicksmith · Since 11 Dec 2007 5 Posts New Member

Sweet!

Thanks for the input fellas.. Bambam, Mark -- Super helpful.

Yeah, I know San Diego is a super light spot, but I'm going to be going back to school so its either Mid to Southern Cali, Florida, or Oahu for me, and I'll have more choices for universities once I establish residency in Cali. But who knows.. I'm in Vail for the next few months.. so we'll see what I decide to do in the spring.

I'm stoked on wave riding right now anyway so San Diego doesn't seem like too bad of an option.

This brings me to my next two questions.

Sizes.

Is the 13.5 cult going to be a bear like the 16 Torch? In which case would Mark's quiver of 7.5, 9, 12 be a good option? What about the 12 Cult in light winds?

Or would a 7.5, 10.5, 13.5 be more appropriate?

And why are Cults going to be that much better in the waves than Torches? I've been riding my Torches with my 5'll'' and 6'1''surfboards for the past few months and they've been pretty sick.

Thanks again!

PS. What's up Kip!!!!!!!!! How's the winter in Seattle?!! You guys getting out at all?

Mark · Thu Dec 13, 07 8:23 am

Glad to help...

As for kite size, The 12 Cult is my big kite. I ride it with my Naish Fish surfboard. I personally wouldn't want to go any bigger. The kites get to slow. The 12 seems to be the right combo of size and speed. I fly it in 10 mph.

I am 215 and use to use a Torch 18 as my big kite.
As for the Cult in the waves, I really like the way the kite just sits there waiting for input. It has such great range you can adjust the amount of power you want. It also has good low end power and is very quick turning. Once you get use to the SLE kites I don't think you will go back to C kites.

Have fun in Sunny So Cal!
Mark

pkh · Since 27 Feb 2005 6549 Posts Couve / Hood Honored Founder

In San Diego your going to need the big dogs... usually 11mph there is a good day. I'd break my "smaller is better" rule for San Diego... when you are trying to fight waves in onshore wind that barely goes over 10, you got to have a big kite.

Get a glide and longboard.and a 15m.. smaller sizes would be good for trips down to Baja, up to Malibu, or over to Hawaii.

MEwing5000 · Since 14 Nov 2005 34 Posts Seattle

Hey Nick,

Matt here, I would be interested in taking the 16 off your hands if you still have it.

I know its a pig, thats what everyone told me about the 04 slingys but I rode those for years and loved them. I think I am more used to the mac truck feeling than most.

I am going to Belize where there is a high percentage of light days, I'd rather be on a big kite than no kite at all. I'm sure it would work good for flat water wake style.

let me know

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