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What makes a kite good for unhooking/handle passing?
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forrest

Since 21 Jun 2005
4330 Posts
Hood River
Hick

CGKA Member


PostThu Apr 26, 07 11:32 am    What makes a kite good for unhooking/handle passing? Reply with quote

So, I'm starting to unhook a lot... And when I say a lot, I mean just about every single time on my port tack. I'm starting to notice a few things...

--In order to pass a handle you need to be able to turn the bar without the kite zipping from one side of the window to the other, or looping. This requires you to put slack in the back lines so the kite doesn't turn.

--When you unhook you want plenty of power, but not to much.

--In order to accomplish this with my waroos I have to trim the kite to a depowered setting which causes me to loose just about all the power.

I am just starting with surface handle passes, and I can get the pass, but once I switch hands the kite always goes into a loop... Unless I depower the kite, but then I sink.

So, what makes a kite/bar good for handle passes?

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pkh

Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder



PostThu Apr 26, 07 1:07 pm     Reply with quote

C kites still rule when it comes to unhooking, they fly great unhooked and have a huge sweet spot sheeting wise that they still fly well in with plenty of power.

The 06 you mention is a tough one to dial in for unhooking, I'd say it has like a 3cm sweet spot sheeting wise that you really need to be in to get good yank and still have the kite fly forward. I experimented with shorter lines (20m and 23m) and they help a lot for making the sweet spot bigger, you can oversheet the kite a little more and it will still fly foward without backstalling.

THe 07 is much better for unhooking, I can fly it unhooked straight above me on the beach in gusty wind no problem and the kite just sits there, something I wouldn't have felt comfortable with on the 06. The sweet spot for unhooking is much larger, but you still need to make sure you depower enough not to backstall it. The 07 also isn't nearly as sensitive to steering input from the bar, so its less likely to loop when holding one handed.

If your arms can handle being really lit and unhooking you will get great yank and you can really huck a raley / sbend with extension, the kite will do most of the work for you. Light wind requires a bit more work on getting pop to make it legit without putting the kite too high.

Interested in hearing other folks views on this... I am still a mere grasshopper when it comes to unhooked moves, and haven't attempted a pass yet (may never with my shoulder the way it is.)

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kiteboard117

Since 02 Mar 2005
450 Posts
PDX
McLovin



PostThu Apr 26, 07 2:10 pm     Reply with quote

Quote:
--In order to pass a handle you need to be able to turn the bar without the kite zipping from one side of the window to the other, or looping. This requires you to put slack in the back lines so the kite doesn't turn.
not totaly. a slower kite can be forgiving but if you grab the bar wrong your in for a yarding no matter what Laughing . without sheeting the bar riding straight downwind fast will stall the kite out and open the window for passing the bar without worrying about where your hand ends up. once you slide around the kite will get power again as soon as you resume edging. practicing on a deserted beach is good too.

the place turning speed makes a differience for me is with sent handlepasses and with those i find i would rather be on a super fast kite then a slow one. when i mess up small tight loops are much nicer than big swoopy ones.

about the sheeting i really like kite to be just past the point it stalls at even if im lit. thats where a c kite is really good it handles the power when you are unhooked and lit much better.

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tinyE

Since 21 Jan 2006
2004 Posts
not really an
XTreme Poster



PostFri Apr 27, 07 6:43 am     Reply with quote

in a handle pass spin, do you flip the handle when you're passing? (i.e. are the back lines crossed when you're done?), or do you try to leave the handle totally flat?

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kitekid

Since 15 Apr 2007
170 Posts

Stoked



PostFri Apr 27, 07 7:01 am     Reply with quote

Try a smaller bar not to small tho

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forrest

Since 21 Jun 2005
4330 Posts
Hood River
Hick

CGKA Member


PostFri Apr 27, 07 7:22 am     Reply with quote

You flip the handle naturally, so when you're done the lines have a spin in them.

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Kataku2k3

Since 14 Aug 2005
3753 Posts
Los Angeles, CA
Videographer



PostFri Apr 27, 07 8:48 am     Reply with quote

Yea, the bar normally spins, but have you ever seen Mark Doyle pass? His bar stays flat...

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kitekid

Since 15 Apr 2007
170 Posts

Stoked



PostFri Apr 27, 07 3:15 pm     Reply with quote

try seting up a bar in you back yard and but a pully on it and try doing handle passes wile keeping the bar flat

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Inept_Fun

Since 14 Apr 2005
1417 Posts
Hood River
XTreme Poster



PostSat Apr 28, 07 7:56 am     Reply with quote

fuels are good for that.

Good for everything actually.

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forrest

Since 21 Jun 2005
4330 Posts
Hood River
Hick

CGKA Member


PostMon Apr 30, 07 9:46 am     Reply with quote

What do you mean, put a pulley on it?

BTW, posted this question to kiteforum to get a broader opinion base:
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2338368

I'm secretly thinking I need a C kite but don't want to start a huge fight. What do you guys think?

I'm just worried about range really... I never really had good sessions on my 8, 12, 16m C kites because I was almost always underpowered. Maybe it would have been different if they were newer than 2004 when i was riding them. BLAH! I just don't want to start over with trying to get my gear dialed in...

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magicmaker

Since 29 Oct 2006
895 Posts
da Hood
Opinionated



PostMon Apr 30, 07 11:15 am     Reply with quote

d00d, get a 13m 07 fuel, that is a sick sick kite, i can fly it when the wind is averaging doing 10 - 20mph (avg 13- 15), but i've also had it out in gusts up to 30mph Shocked

i didn't even have to use my depower strap, Cool just sheeted the bar out all the way, and it just ate teh gusts alive. i wiegh in at 160 and ride misfit 127.

C kites rule Exclamation

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Hein

Since 08 Mar 2005
1314 Posts

Possessed



PostMon Apr 30, 07 12:27 pm     Reply with quote




....

Last edited by Hein on Mon Apr 30, 07 3:29 pm; edited 4 times in total

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mack

Since 08 Aug 2006
29 Posts
Hood River, OR
 



PostMon Apr 30, 07 12:34 pm     Reply with quote

hein speaks the truth, learn to handle gusts with your board, not your bar.

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genek

Since 21 Jul 2006
2165 Posts
East Po
KGB



PostMon Apr 30, 07 12:48 pm     Reply with quote

I actually got a chance to try the Liquid Force Havoc recently (it's a 4 line hybrid) and it was great unhooked. Better than my Octanes and '05 Fuel. I'm sure the '07 Fuels are awesome for unhooked and have great depower. It's good to know though that some kite companies are starting to dial in the "flat" kites as well. I bet there's a good number of '07 kites that'll satisfy you in both the depower and unhooked department, but ultimately you're gonna have to deal with handling the power while riding unhooked as Hein pointed out. Become friends with your depower strap, learn to edge hard, and work on your arm strength so you can hook back in while powered.

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gabe

Since 16 May 2005
491 Posts

Obsessed



PostMon Apr 30, 07 1:45 pm     Reply with quote

the 06 waroo is so exceptionally bad at having a workable sheeting sweet spot for a fixed bar that it's probably unfair and premature to turn your back to the whole spectrum of sle kites.

as a largely uninterested observer to the whole freestyle scene, i don't really understand the fascination with handle passes except for the most elite riders and as a way to earn points in a contest. seems like there are a lot cooler and more fundamental tricks out there to learn first.

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tinyE

Since 21 Jan 2006
2004 Posts
not really an
XTreme Poster



PostMon Apr 30, 07 2:07 pm     Reply with quote

Hein wrote:
You should not ask this question on the forums.

99.9% of the riders out there can't ride for shit unhooked.
It's almost comical to see them try with their oversheeted
kite at 80 degrees.


..


Rolling Eyes

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scottm

Since 12 Jun 2006
108 Posts

Stoked



PostMon Apr 30, 07 3:25 pm    Re: What makes a kite good for unhooking/handle passing? Reply with quote

Forrest wrote:
--In order to pass a handle you need to be able to turn the bar without the kite zipping from one side of the window to the other, or looping. This requires you to put slack in the back lines so the kite doesn't turn.

I am just starting with surface handle passes, and I can get the pass, but once I switch hands the kite always goes into a loop... Unless I depower the kite, but then I sink.


As a regular unhooker I definitely DON'T want slack in my turning lines - then you have no control of the kite.

The most important thing is to make sure your hands are as close to the center of the bar as possible - jammed up against the center line. If the kite is turning after your handle pass, it means you didn't grab close enough to the center. You should be able to do an unhooked trick and let go with either hand at any time, and still land with the kite going exactly the same way it was when you started.

Once you get used to that, the real fun starts (like downlooping the kite when you're halfway through a surface pass so you're LIT on exit, or diving the kite toward the water at the peak of a raley or s-bend to get a little extra boost and come in extra hot).

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