Foil Mast 91 or 101?

Kay · Since 11 May 2009 219 Posts Portland Stoked

Looking for mast size advice. I'm already leaning towards the 101 but perhaps someone that has more experience with both size can help me out.

I'm looking at getting the Moses 558 with 330 stabilizer.

I currently ride a aluminum/composite 90cm foil and sometimes I wish I had a little longer mast... when I lean upwind, "poping" to switch feet, aggressive carves.

There is a used Moses with a 91 mast for a good price; however, I have the feeling I'll always regret not going to 101... the grass always seems greener on the other side kind of thing.

I ride mainly on Columbia River (HR, Stevenson, Sauvie). My board is a 4'6 Duotone Pace, strapless. Since I've only ridden 90cm mast I got nothing to compare with. What am I really missing out on if I dont go up in length?

I don't mind falling from higher at faster speeds, I wear a helmet and a vest. Has anyone gone from 91 to 101? Anyone from 101 to 91?

Lastly, anyone wanting to downsize & trade if I get the 91 mast?

eric · Since 13 Jan 2006 1840 Posts XTreme Poster

One can mt bike with differing lengths of travel on shocks. Increased travel makes downhill on bumpy. terrain a lot more fun for me, but you do lose a bit of precision.

Trade-offs

Personally, in The Gorge, I have found that longer is better. Do know that the Moses 91cm mast is pretty soft, which some folks like. Not me.

Eric

wylieflyote · Wed Sep 23, 20 11:44 am

I had the Moses 91... Sold it and switched to the Moses 101.
I'm glad you've asked this question because I'm still confused about my decision.

101 Pluses....
I mainly like the extra height because my wing no longer breaches (crash) especially in deep swell.

101 Negatives:
Maybe it's slower, more drag?
People say you lose the tight aggressive turns?

I asked this same question on Kiteforum and the answers were near unanimous shorter is better. But these people aren't Gorge foilers.

Nak · Wed Sep 23, 20 11:48 am

I have heard that the Slingshot Phantasm is very close to release. A tiny bit heavier than the Moses 101 but significantly stiffer. Something to consider.

ZMar · Since 13 May 2018 24 Posts

If you’re planning on using the 558 front wing then a 101 mast is a pretty obvious choice for the gorge and honestly, in general. The only time you want a shorter mast is if you’re riding with bigger wings on waves and the 558 definitely isn’t that. For riders on a 633 or larger (more of a surf wing) then having an 80-90cm mast will make the foil feel a lot snappier and tighter on waves and swell but if you’re riding on a 558 then that point is pretty mute. The 558 has a stall speed that’s too high to make those snappy turns anyway so there’s no plus to a shorter mast with that wing. The 101 will be stiffer, give you better upwind performance, and more room for error in maneuvers. Feel free to pm me if you have any more questions about the setup or want some more info. I will say, my go to wing right now is the 558 and it’s super fun but it really doesn’t like to ride the gorge swell. On bigger ocean waves you can really get on the wave but here the swell is just too small and slow barring a couple huge days a year out at Arlington. If you want to do powered free ride or jump then the 558 is awesome!

Kay · Since 11 May 2009 219 Posts Portland Stoked

Thank you all for the feedback and your experience with 101 vs 91. I’ll go with the 101.

As far as the SS Foil is concerned, any release dates in mind, more info or comparability with the Moses wings/stabilizers? I see a forum from 2019 mentioning in but nothing is out yet.

Jonpnw · Thu Sep 24, 20 7:05 am

Pepi · Thu Sep 24, 20 9:38 pm

I would say that this is definitely one of the better comments on the positives and negatives for wing and mast selection.
Wings and masts should be selected to suit your own personal riding terrain and skills development goals.

Nak · Fri Sep 25, 20 9:33 am

Matt V · Fri Sep 25, 20 3:14 pm

user124 · Since 02 Aug 2012 391 Posts Portland Obsessed

It's not as much about speed but more about how much you vary the pitch of your foil (and parallel board) to adapt to the contours of the water. As you change pitch with a longer mast you will move your center of gravity more forward or aft of the center of lift of the foil relative to with a shorter mast. This will make you feel less stable.

The trade-off of course is a longer mast means less likely to breech with a hard carve as you lean over (roll the foil) to go up wind or as you come through the crest of swell since you can keep your foil deeper in the water without touching down your board.

So bottom line - if you want to ride swell or follow the contours of the water, get a shorter mast. If you want to lean hard to go upwind and just blast through swell without following the contour with less risk of breaching/ventilating, get a longer mast.

Bigger wings are slower and better for riding waves or swell, so they generally pair better with shorter masts.

Pepi · Sat Sep 26, 20 12:47 pm

phill · Since 26 May 2016 60 Posts

Phantasm Foil Mast 92 or 102 for the Phantasm 633?

Any advice on kite foiling in large swell or small waves as to which would be better with the 633?
Would the 633 put too much flex on the 102?

I currently ride a 95cm Alu and thinking about going longer and the new 102 supposedly stiffer than past carbon masts , could improve performance.

Any advice appreciated.