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Best stance for riding toe side to avoid the burn?

 
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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
235 Posts

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PostSat Jul 15, 17 6:27 am    Best stance for riding toe side to avoid the burn? Reply with quote

When I ride toe side (right foot back, heading toward OR side) for a while I really start to feel the burn in my right quad and glute. After my session I typically will feel some pain in my right glute and hip and sometimes sciatica like symptoms.

Stretches and rolling the piriformas alleviate the soreness afterward but no matter how much stretching I do the symptoms come back every session.

So maybe it's my stance? So what is the best stance for riding toe side that does not overload quads and glutes?

Has anyone else had similar symptoms and figured out how to avoid the burn?

FYI: it doesn't matter if I am on a surf board, or twin tip, strap or strapless, same issues.

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knotwindy

Since 25 Sep 2011
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PostSat Jul 15, 17 7:28 am     Reply with quote

No experience with it and hopefully someone will come up with a better idea but
sounds like maybe you have to much weight on the back foot for too long. Try moving your front foot back a bit so you can shift some weight to it without changing where your weight is on the board?

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bobgatpdx

Since 04 Oct 2008
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PostSat Jul 15, 17 8:57 am     Reply with quote

Maybe a harness issue?
When I switched from seat harness to waist harness, I found it much easier to ride toeside. Also better for jibe footwork and just overall comfort. I'm now using Ride Engine with rope loop - which also helps when toeside.
- Bob

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bigjohn

Since 13 Mar 2012
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PostSat Jul 15, 17 10:03 am    Re: Best stance for riding toe side to avoid the burn? Reply with quote

apctjb wrote:
When I ride toe side (right foot back, heading toward OR side) for a while I really start to feel the burn in my right quad and glute. After my session I typically will feel some pain in my right glute and hip and sometimes sciatica like symptoms.
...

Has anyone else had similar symptoms and figured out how to avoid the burn?

FYI: it doesn't matter if I am on a surf board, or twin tip, strap or strapless, same issues.


I don't want to make a false assumption about your riding style, but if your reason for riding toe side is because you aren't comfortable jibing you are working the same muscles riding both directions which really increases the burn. Giving your muscles a chance to relax as you are riding heel side both directions may reduce your pain.

Or... if you are riding toe side to slash the swell try practicing with your right foot forward every once in a while to give your right leg a rest.

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scottnorby

Since 23 Sep 2005
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Seattle, Washington
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PostSat Jul 15, 17 10:58 am     Reply with quote

I definitely understand.
Ive been riding surfboards strapless since about 2008 and my first issue was the burn...then that leg's knee started to shoot pain. The twisting.....which almost never happens when surfing (paddle in surfing)
I have a couple of pretty bad hip and knee injuries from kiting like a buckled knee and seriously torn hip flexors from a floater on to sand that went real bad in 2010.

Over the years surfing in the ocean (downwinders at fort stevens) I stay toeside the entire ride (left foot forward) and so I tried to avoid the pain with a duty knee brace. That really didn't work either.

I now ride a short, but high volume, surfboard.
This allows me to fly a smaller kite and also ride with the kite further on the edge of the window (since I have more buoyancy) It also makes for a better true surfing experience when you get a good wave and can just let the kite drift.

Just for reference if you notice my riding stance going toeside in this video you can clearly see I am much more upright and way less twist in my body.
This is because the kite is not trying to constantly pull me down wind and my kite is more on the edge of the window.

I see SO many guys riding surfboards just leaning wayyyy over trying to hold an edge the entire ride and it looks---not right.

Stand up. Get a board with more volume.
And even slow it down a little (you can with more volume) and take the time to explore terrain and not feel like the kite is yanking you around.

https://vimeo.com/225051566

Hope that helps.

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apctjb

Since 19 Aug 2007
235 Posts

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PostSat Jul 15, 17 12:44 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

Jibing not an issue; the burn forces me off my toe side so I have learned to jib well Smile but riding the swell from the WA side toward OR is the best on toe side.

The video is great. While I don't have the benefit of having a kite cam would say my stance is similar. As you see in the video when on toe side there is more flex in the back leg and the quad is on, and the knee rotated out so the piriformas is firing. I do that for a while and I feel the burn...

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unbob

Since 31 Aug 2008
233 Posts
'da Gorge/LaV
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PostSat Jul 15, 17 5:28 pm     Reply with quote

scottnorby wrote:
Get a board with more volume.
And even slow it down a little (you can with more volume) and take the time to explore terrain and not feel like the kite is yanking you around.

https://vimeo.com/225051566

Hope that helps.
Great video Scott! So, what is your weight and board volume? Thx,Rob
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scottnorby

Since 23 Sep 2005
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PostSun Jul 16, 17 8:19 am     Reply with quote

Hey Rob
The volume of that board is around 28liters
I have a version which is a half inch thicker and better for even lighter wind or mushier swell---that board is 31 liters
At 5'6 those boards feel right for 'no stall' riding

I am 210 lbs and 6 foot

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unbob

Since 31 Aug 2008
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'da Gorge/LaV
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PostSun Jul 16, 17 3:06 pm     Reply with quote

scottnorby wrote:
Hey Rob
The volume of that board is around 28liters
I have a version which is a half inch thicker and better for even lighter wind or mushier swell---that board is 31 liters
At 5'6 those boards feel right for 'no stall' riding
I am 210 lbs and 6 foot
Thx Scott! I'm riding a 5'1" Vader 22.9L and weigh 175 lbs - so that's 7.64 lbs per litre. Your 28L board equals 7.5 lbs per litre for your 210 lbs. So we're real close to riding equal volume for our weight.

I often wonder what the 5'3" 25.8L Vader or 5'1" 24.5L Evo would feel like compared to my current board. And thinking it would be sweet to fly 1 or 2m smaller kite in the same conditions. Hopefully, I'll demo one sometime!

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scottnorby

Since 23 Sep 2005
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Seattle, Washington
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PostSun Jul 16, 17 4:36 pm     Reply with quote

Right on. It's an age old debate about volume but it's just a different way to ride.

And yeah Tomo is a really impressive shaper with brave ideas- much respect. And if the outline and bottom contours of your Tomo board are the same, and you can add a bit of thickness without over bulking the rail, it will make a considerable difference that you will have to experiment with.

My current two boards are the same outline, fin placement and bottom. Essentially the same shape but one is .5 inches thicker and the thicker is perfect if the wind drops or if the waves are super mushy.

Volume helps keep board speed. I love paddle in surfing planing hulls too. Glide and time riding the board without 'pull'. I am always thinking about apparent wind especially on light days. With less 'drag' your kite can do it's thing further on the edge of the window. Maybe I just got the addiction from too many days on big kites in the surf but that feeling is more like surfing as you are standing ON the board and there can be zero pull from the kite and you still find glide on the water or truly ride the energy of the wave. Nice to have moments you forget the kite is there.
My knee injury was a mixed blessing because I modified to higher volume boardswhich enabled a more natural surfing stance. (and now these Cush boards obviously have a soft shell wrapped over the entire epoxy surfboard--priceless for your knees, ankles, ribs and head. Combined with the new Wax Mat decking and you have no need for wax or pads)

I also know a lot of us have got over hanging from a kite with your body at a 45 degree angle and dragging the tail of the surfboard thru the water... twin tip riding with a surfboard. Harness spun, edging the entire time, tweaking knees etc.

Also important to note that the 'toe in' on a standard paddle in surfboards side fins are designed to create DRAG not speed.
My newest boards have about 50 percent less toe in than a traditional surfboard. Its faster and I realized that the toe in helps a surfboard "toe in toward" the face of the wave.
In our case, if you are not on a wave, the toe in may help you go upwind---but we don't need as much assistance helping the board 'drag, turn into and cling' to the face of the wave because we generally have more speed when we do get on the wave.

If a board has too much toe in you are constantly having to force it to glide straight. That constant battle can beat up your knees too so examine your toe in on your current boards.

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