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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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Wed Jun 14, 06 1:00 pm |
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are there specific incidents of flat kite accidents you are referring to?
if you are flying a 12m when everyone else is flying a 8ms ... well, you are asking for trouble. i'm wondering if there are specific incidents of someone flying a SLE within a reasonable range and getting hurt by some SLE specific sort of mishap?
to claim that SLE's are more dangerous the normal LE's seems a bit off to me. |
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Wyo Kiter
Since 09 Mar 2006
148 Posts
In a VAN, down by the RIVER.
Stoked
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Wed Jun 14, 06 1:08 pm |
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NaishUSA wrote: |
/discuss? |
I agree there are no "Safe Kites" just as there are no safe guns. _________________ Helping companys to innovate bricks-and-clicks supply-chains and orchestrate real-time content to deliver customized channels to scale strategic e-services and facilitate global e-markets which will incubate 24/7 niches and seize dot-com channels. |
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gabe
Since 16 May 2005
478 Posts
Obsessed
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Wed Jun 14, 06 10:35 pm |
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i actually find this is one of the best times not to be constrained by a stopper.
my prediction is that as people use these kite more and more, they will increasingly have less interest in using a stopper to ride against. i still use a stopper to control the sheetign distance so i can grab the bar and it wont invert etc.
pkh wrote: | The only time I am missing the stopper is on heelside to toeside transitions.
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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Thu Jun 15, 06 6:39 am |
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gabe wrote: | i actually find this is one of the best times not to be constrained by a stopper.
my prediction is that as people use these kite more and more, they will increasingly have less interest in using a stopper to ride against. i still use a stopper to control the sheetign distance so i can grab the bar and it wont invert etc.
pkh wrote: | The only time I am missing the stopper is on heelside to toeside transitions.
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Your probably right, just takes some getting used to I suppose. |
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NaishUSA
Since 07 Jul 2005
53 Posts
HR OR
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Thu Jun 15, 06 1:01 pm |
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pjc wrote: | are there specific incidents of flat kite accidents you are referring to?
if you are flying a 12m when everyone else is flying a 8ms ... well, you are asking for trouble. i'm wondering if there are specific incidents of someone flying a SLE within a reasonable range and getting hurt by some SLE specific sort of mishap?
to claim that SLE's are more dangerous the normal LE's seems a bit off to me. |
I wasnt claiming that they were more dangerous, just not inherently safer because of depower.
For an indication of safety Id poll all the riders on the board and see how many use leashes on their sle/bow/flat kites. I would bet the number is a relatively small percentage of riders. ( I know that I dont use one because of spinning tangles) Being able to effectively and completely depower your kite in all situations and not have a loose kite flying downwind is my initial measure of overall safety.
My point is that the increased depower of flat/sle/bow kites does not make them inherently safer than traditional inflatables, just more comfortable and user friendly. Dont get me wrong, im not bashing this category of kite by a long shot, I just dont like seeing people lulled into a false sense of security... |
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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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Fri Jun 16, 06 10:11 am |
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i guess it is a question of semantics - is getting you a** handed to you dangerous or merely uncomfortable? i certainly wish these SLEs were around when i was getting tossed on every transition a few years ago.
imho, it is not very responsible to ride without a kite leash. i don't think sending one of these SLEs to leash is an automatic death spiral. i haven't studied this topic too much but the worst i've heard about is "the kite spun around a lot and mande me feel nervous".
at any rate, my kite leash has an easy to activate QR on it as well - which i think is a good thing for any kite leash re:less of SLE or LE. |
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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Fri Jun 16, 06 10:42 am |
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I've had the bridle wrap around a tip of my Waroo. The net result is if I tried to power up the kite by pulling the bar in, the kite flew up in the air and started to spin, but as soon as I let the bar the kite would just drop back on the water.
Eventually I just gave up and self rescued. I've had similar circumstances set up on a C kite where lines wrapped a tip and wouldn't come loose.
As for leashes, isn't your chicken loop your leash? Again as long as the rear lines aren't tensioned, the kite has no power. Jim was showing me in the shop how when only the front lines are tensioned there is basically no way for the kite to power up, it just flags out.
So the only scenario I see being a problem is if for some reason you aren't able to release tension from the rear lines. Not sure how it could happen, but I am not going to tempt fate and say it couldn't happen! |
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pjc
Since 06 Mar 2005
649 Posts
Addicted
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Fri Jun 16, 06 10:51 am |
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yeah it's pretty docile with the bar all the way out (assuming you don't put a stopper ball on it like i did...)
but couldn't you lose the chicken loop pretty easily. pop the shackle by accident or unhook yourself by accident? i guess that is not super common, but both have happened to me more then once.
so no stopper ball and a leash on the chicken loop sounds like an option.
but no leash at all.... imho that is not so wise, but thats just one opinion |
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pkh
Since 27 Feb 2005
6549 Posts
Couve / Hood
Honored Founder
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Fri Jun 16, 06 11:01 am |
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Yeah some sort of leash is good, but I am just saying having it go to the CL is ideal.
I am using a suicide leash to my chicken loop or at least using the donkey dick. I think with the donkey dick in there it ain't pulling out. |
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eric
Since 13 Jan 2006
1831 Posts
XTreme Poster
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Fri Jun 16, 06 11:08 am |
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I have a "False 5th" on my SLE and leash directly to that. I can spin the bar at will. When I let go it kills the kite power--period. If that system fails I have a release on my loop; if that fails on my spreader; and if that fails on my leash-- steps 2-4 all similar to my C-kites of old.
I think the depower of the bow/SLE is your first line of defense against an accident, and that it is an order of magnitude safer than a 5 line C, as for the fifth to work on a C you must pull it or unhook before letting go of the bar, at which point, assuming it's not too tightly wrapped around your flying lines, it is VERY effective. This is not the case with a bow/SLE, as arm extension causes a huge reduction in kite pull without activating anything.
Yes, there are NO 100% safe kites. And, stupid is, as stupid does. Go out on a 12 SLE in 40 knots and you are asking for trouble. Keep an SLE overhead while standing on shore and it luffs or inverts.....?! However, I find that a leashed SLE is a very significant step in the right direction. In fact, I would call it a profound step. I am done with traditional C-kites, and would not recommend that newbies use them either.
Most important is the mind that is attached to the kite. To that end I support every effort made to educate kiters to safe methods and practice. Currently, this appears to only happen in any sort of organized way from top notch kite schools.
My $0.02.
Eric |
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mikes
Since 13 Mar 2005
90 Posts
B'Ham
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Sat Jun 17, 06 12:24 am |
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NaishUSA wrote: | I am of the opinion however, that they are not inherently more safe than a standard 5th line equipped Trad. Inflatable. Granted there is more depower range which makes the ride more comfortable and keeps the rider in more control, but when things go wrong they can really go wrong (broken bridle/line death spiral comes to mind). ...snip..
/discuss? |
I agree that when something goes wrong, a kites still a kite, and people can still die, and that spinning leash systems need to improve. If anything Bow's can give someone a false sense of security, but that doesn't make them less safe
After 6 years of kiting on all types of kites I feel way safer on Bow's when my kite when launching or when my kite is in the air in nasty wind. Memorial Day weekend at Rufus, waiting for my turn to launch, big guy 220-250lbs~ on a 5th lined mid AR C gets lofted/spanked out of control a few times in the launch zone, sesh over. Coulda been a fluke gust, could been rigged wrong, coulda been a newbie, though he didn't look it. A few kites launch then I launch my 7m, bring my kite up and a big gust picks me up, I sheet out instantly, I am 1-2' off the ground, and land on my feet, no drag, no drama, get my board, go ride. With my high AR C's I'd have been on the rocks. Just another of many moments that's conviced me that these kites are the way for me. Another biggie for me is the fun factor for the way I like to ride
Mike S |
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